The Broken ELO System

[purrr]

ELO is broken.

You get one or so per kill past 1335 or so ELO, but the SECOND some naked shanks you, you lose 25. I was at 1447 today. I played for an hour. Now I'm at 1379. The system is absurd. You spend and hour and a half grinding kills, and lose your work because some random person with a 830 ELO gets a lucky hit.
Make it so that you lose anything between 3-7, randomely. Nobody likes the system. Everyone complains about it in chat, for crying out loud. Just, please.

please?

Note: this isn't a hate thread. Comments about staff being overworked will be deleted.

 

[3sw]

Hey,
As you play TMD your ELO is continuously adjusted until it meets a certain stabilization point. The more kills/deaths you gain, the more accurate it will become. Unlike your KD, it is determined by comparing your ELO to your opponents. For example, if you have 1534 ELO, and you kill someone with 987 ELO, you will not gain as much since their ELO is low and they will not lose much either. However, if you have 1321 ELO, and you kill someone with 1765 ELO, your ELO will highly increase, and their's would decrease even more.
In your case, you had 1335 ELO, and someone with a much lower number than that killed you. This made their ELO increase and yours decrease. The more you play, the more stabilized your ELO becomes and you won't lose as much. Your KD and ELO was reset after the update, so it'll take a while of killing and dying for it to be accurate again.

 

[saintsebastian]

i do agree with you, but if you got killed by a "noob" then are they really a noob? im a titan and i go around with an m9 killing full juggs, then they start screaming noob.

 

[Jahango]

Elo is fine... I've lost like 30 to a naked once, so...

 

[drewey09]

Elo is fine... I've lost like 30 to a naked once, so...

Rip

 

[purrr]

i do agree with you, but if you got killed by a "noob" then are they really a noob? im a titan and i go around with an m9 killing full juggs, then they start screaming noob.

First of all, I doubt that. To kill a jug with an m9 is next to impossible.

Second of all, your point is useless and irrelevant. Usually I'm killing someone and get scummed from behind. I rarely just get destroyed by randies.

 

[purrr]

Hey,
As you play TMD your ELO is continuously adjusted until it meets a certain stabilization point. The more kills/deaths you gain, the more accurate it will become. Unlike your KD, it is determined by comparing your ELO to your opponents. For example, if you have 1534 ELO, and you kill someone with 987 ELO, you will not gain as much since their ELO is low and they will not lose much either. However, if you have 1321 ELO, and you kill someone with 1765 ELO, your ELO will highly increase, and their's would decrease even more.
In your case, you had 1335 ELO, and someone with a much lower number than that killed you. This made their ELO increase and yours decrease. The more you play, the more stabilized your ELO becomes and you won't lose as much. Your KD and ELO was reset after the update, so it'll take a while of killing and dying for it to be accurate again.

That's the point. If you're the 1765 ELO player, and you get killed, you will probably lose 20+. That's 20 kills, almost always (past 1335 ELO or so due to the fact your ELO is much higher than the majority of players). 20 kills is a lot to grind (comments saying "no it's not111!" will be deleted) and to lose it in ten seconds is a nightmare.

For example:
Today I was at 1447 ELO. I had already lost 20 or so, and I was kinda pissed. I was out in riot, and I decide to hit the randomtp sign so I wouldn't get farmed.

Immediately I get spawncamped by a guy 5 blocks behind me with a spas.

-27 ELO

This.
Isn't.
Fair.
You punish the people who are doing the best. Just make it a more uniform amount, so that *that* doesn't happen.

 

[drewey09]

That's the point. If you're the 1765 ELO player, and you get killed, you will probably lose 20+. That's 20 kills, almost always (past 1335 ELO or so due to the fact your ELO is much higher than the majority of players). 20 kills is a lot to grind (comments saying "no it's not111!" will be deleted) and to lose it in ten seconds is a nightmare.

For example:
Today I was at 1447 ELO. I had already lost 20 or so, and I was kinda pissed. I was out in riot, and I decide to hit the randomtp sign so I wouldn't get farmed.

Immediately I get spawncamped by a guy 5 blocks behind me with a spas.

-27 ELO

This.
Isn't.
Fair.
You punish the people who are doing the best. Just make it a more uniform amount, so that *that* doesn't happen.

It's ELO...

 

[purrr]

It's ELO...

useless comment. ggwp.
I'll add this to the list of stuff I'm gonna ignore on this thread.

 

[Shallowing]

Good luck getting helper now lol nice person Helpful good luck anyway

 

[iMoe]

The ELO system is used internationally across all kinds of platforms. It was created to be used in chess, to replace an old system that had some faults. With that said, it is definitely not broken. Here's a graph explaining the theoretical outcome of a match;

Player A starts with a 1400 rating and B with 1800 in a tournament using K = 32 (brown curves). The blue dash-dot line denotes the initial rating difference of 400 (1800 - 1400). The probability of B winning, the expected outcome, is 0.91 (intersection of black solid curve and blue line); if this happens, A's rating decreases by 3 (intersection of brown solid curve and blue line) to 1397 and B's increases by the same amount to 1803. Conversely, the probability of A winning, the unexpected outcome, is 0.09 (intersection of black dotted curve and blue line); if this happens, A's rating increases by 29 (intersection of brown dotted curve and blue line) to 1429 and B's decreases by the same amount to 1771.

Took this directly from here.

Assuming you had a higher rating, a 30-ish rating loss makes sense. It does seem a bit unfair to get thrown into the wild directly in front of someone, but that does make this system broken, that makes the random tp broken.

 

[purrr]

The ELO system is used internationally across all kinds of platforms. It was created to be used in chess, to replace an old system that had some faults. With that said, it is definitely not broken. Here's a graph explaining the theoretical outcome of a match;

Player A starts with a 1400 rating and B with 1800 in a tournament using K = 32 (brown curves). The blue dash-dot line denotes the initial rating difference of 400 (1800 - 1400). The probability of B winning, the expected outcome, is 0.91 (intersection of black solid curve and blue line); if this happens, A's rating decreases by 3 (intersection of brown solid curve and blue line) to 1397 and B's increases by the same amount to 1803. Conversely, the probability of A winning, the unexpected outcome, is 0.09 (intersection of black dotted curve and blue line); if this happens, A's rating increases by 29 (intersection of brown dotted curve and blue line) to 1429 and B's decreases by the same amount to 1771.

Took this directly from here.

Assuming you had a higher rating, a 30-ish rating loss makes sense. It does seem a bit unfair to get thrown into the wild directly in front of someone, but that does make this system broken, that makes the random tp broken.

The randomtp example was one of many. I've had to deal with losing 20+ ELO at least 10 times.

Just in case reading the rest of the thread wasn't something you did, I've heard this "explanation". I know how ELO works. I'm not stupid. Don't explain to me something I already understand, but rather be productive and just say "no because" or "yes because"

 

[drewey09]

useless comment. ggwp.
I'll add this to the list of stuff I'm gonna ignore on this thread.

Your acting like it's some major thing when in reality it is a dumb point scoring thing on a game.

 

[purrr]

Your acting like it's some major thing when in reality it is a dumb point scoring thing on a game.

No I'm not. I like having something to track how well I'm doing.

Again, this is irrelevant. Please stay on topic.

 

[iMoe]

The randomtp example was one of many. I've had to deal with losing 20+ ELO at least 10 times.

Just in case reading the rest of the thread wasn't something you did, I've heard this "explanation". I know how ELO works. I'm not stupid. Don't explain to me something I already understand, but rather be productive and just say "no because" or "yes because"

A 20 rating loss 10 times does not make the system broken. You died to players who had a lower rating than you, meaning they had a lower probability of winning. If you want to learn how this works, re-read my post. You claim to understand the system, but then you mention a 20 rating loss as if it's unfair.

I won't explain the system any further, you can read my previous post or look directly at the wiki to learn about it. I'll paraphrase that entire post to fit your criteria of "no because";

No, because the system places you according to your skill level. If you are the expected winner, and you lose, you get moved down severely because someone who is seen as less skilled has beaten you. Whatever amount you lose, they gain.

 

[purrr]

A 20 rating loss 10 times does not make the system broken. You died to players who had a lower rating than you, meaning they had a lower probability of winning. If you want to learn how this works, re-read my post. You claim to understand the system, but then you mention a 20 rating loss as if it's unfair.

I won't explain the system any further, you can read my previous post or look directly at the wiki to learn about it. I'll paraphrase that entire post to fit your criteria of "no because";

No, because the system places you according to your skill level. If you are the expected winner, and you lose, you get moved down severely because someone who is seen as less skilled has beaten you. Whatever amount you lose, they gain.

>say the say thing twice for no reason
>expect different outcome

I'm not saying losing 20 ELO is broken. I'm saying grinding 20 ELO for a half an hour and then losing it in ten seconds is. I get the system. I understand. The higher ELO you have and the lower ELO they have, the less ELO you get killing them & vice versa. I'm gonna take a wild swing and say you're not in the top 50 ELO sector. It really hits people in there hard, probably the hardest. Based off of such, saying the same thing without seeing my side doesn't contribute much, it's just saying what everyone knows. Thanks anyways

 

[iMoe]

>say the say thing twice for no reason
>expect different outcome

I'm not saying losing 20 ELO is broken. I'm saying grinding 20 ELO for a half an hour and then losing it in ten seconds is. I get the system. I understand. The higher ELO you have and the lower ELO they have, the less ELO you get killing them & vice versa. I'm gonna take a wild swing and say you're not in the top 50 ELO sector. It really hits people in there hard, probably the hardest. Based off of such, saying the same thing without seeing my side doesn't contribute much, it's just saying what everyone knows. Thanks anyways

... But you asked me to say the same thing twice! In your previous reply, you asked me to say "no because", or "yes because"! I'd say I've been saying the same thing this whole time!

From what you've said above, you believe the system is broken because you have to grind 20 rating for a half an hour then lose it in 10 seconds.
I don't think you are really seeing your own side here; if you are in the top 50, you should statistically be able to beat someone who is below you. As a result, when you lose, you suffer a big loss. I can see you understand the system, but I don't get why you think a 20 rating loss makes the system broken.

 

[purrr]

... But you asked me to say the same thing twice! In your previous reply, you asked me to say "no because", or "yes because"! I'd say I've been saying the same thing this whole time!

From what you've said above, you believe the system is broken because you have to grind 20 rating for a half an hour then lose it in 10 seconds.
I don't think you are really seeing your own side here; if you are in the top 50, you should statistically be able to beat someone who is below you. As a result, when you lose, you suffer a big loss. I can see you understand the system, but I don't get why you think a 20 rating loss makes the system broken.

I don't *usually* die, if ever, just to some random person that just outright destroys me. Almost every time I'm either—

Fighting other people, and they kill me from behind
Killed by a camper in a tree/woods
Teamkilled by my own mates

I get that I should be able to kill them every time, but you just can't. Whether it's a 6v1, or you just get scumbagged by people that kill you when you're fighting. Alas, I can't do that, and you suffer dearly as a result.

My personal opinion would be to have a solid loss amount so that you don't lose <everything> EVERY TIME.

My 0.02.

 

[MrMcMemeMan]

That's the point. If you're the 1765 ELO player, and you get killed, you will probably lose 20+. That's 20 kills, almost always (past 1335 ELO or so due to the fact your ELO is much higher than the majority of players). 20 kills is a lot to grind (comments saying "no it's not111!" will be deleted) and to lose it in ten seconds is a nightmare.

For example:
Today I was at 1447 ELO. I had already lost 20 or so, and I was kinda pissed. I was out in riot, and I decide to hit the randomtp sign so I wouldn't get farmed.

Immediately I get spawncamped by a guy 5 blocks behind me with a spas.

-27 ELO

This.
Isn't.
Fair.
You punish the people who are doing the best. Just make it a more uniform amount, so that *that* doesn't happen.

yeah honestly, the safe zones should be inside and outside Non-PvP zones to about 50 blocks so actual noobs have a
chance.

 

[Aurian_Thornhill]

ELO isn't nearly as broken as you suggest. Coming from me, I've still got a good 1k or so and I've just been ****ing around and having fun, I don't take myself seriously at all and I still have a decent ELO.