A Friendly Reminder

[KyronicGaming]

When to expect results from your suggestion:

When not to expect results from your suggestion:

The owners are often busy, for a guaranteed response please feel free to use us, builders, to pass messages (as long as you are kind and respectful).

Thank you for reading

- Ky​

 

[Draw4]

No use me instead im better than @Kyritic

 

[DDENGAR]

Yes, and replying back to people is important, especially if your active...
People will continue to be snobby, it's just the attitude here.
Get with the program mate and toughen up, not everyone here is going to respect you or anyone in general.

 

[DragonDefenders]

I have question. Will there ever be a new game mode that we dont expect?

 

[ArmenTheHeli]

When to expect results from your suggestion:

When not to expect results from your suggestion:

The owners are often busy, for a guaranteed response please feel free to use us, builders, to pass messages (as long as you are kind and respectful).

Thank you for reading

- Ky​

So the owners are too busy when community members DM them, but when staff members message them they instantly have time? This makes no sense, as it is blatant favorism against the player base. If anyone DMs an owner with a suggestion, it would take the same amount of time to read it as it would for them to read it when it is sent by a builder. This whole thread smells like a scapegoat for the owners since apparently they are refusing to talk to anyone who doesn't work for them.

Please suggest to the owners that they fix communication, since I can't do it. Much thanks.

 

[KyronicGaming]

Yes, and replying back to people is important, especially if your active...
People will continue to be snobby, it's just the attitude here.
Get with the program mate and toughen up, not everyone here is going to respect you or anyone in general.

I understand program thank you. Its people that act like children then cry when they don't get results that need to get with it. People can be *******s i dont care, I'm simply stating if you're gonna act like a complete ******* don't expect results.

 

[KyronicGaming]

So the owners are too busy when community members DM them, but when staff members message them they instantly have time? This makes no sense, as it is blatant favorism against the player base. If anyone DMs an owner with a suggestion, it would take the same amount of time to read it as it would for them to read it when it is sent by a builder. This whole thread smells like a scapegoat for the owners since apparently they are refusing to talk to anyone who doesn't work for them.

Please suggest to the owners that they fix communication, since I can't do it. Much thanks.

Many reasons why this is flawed.

1. Jacob comes on the build server often, it's not that he goes out of his way to ignore but if he's logged onto the server he's going to respond there and then.
2. Its not favouritism, the players significantly out weight the amount the amount of builders so we're sort of like a filter, taking the good ideas and suggestions directly to him instead of him being swamped
3. It wouldn't take the same amount of time due to my previous statement. There are less builders. We can decide what to bring to him, which is also judged by the way people ask us.
4. There are 2 owners and multiple builders in multiple time zones, its more efficent to come though us.
5. No not asking Jacob to directly respond to most suggestions himself. He spends over half his day doing **** for the server, give him a break.

 

[KyronicGaming]

I have question. Will there ever be a new game mode that we dont expect?

We currently have two ideas, idk this isn't confirmed but I believe minewars might be dropped. We're gonna get this TMD map update out, create multiple hellnight maps, push for a map maker 2.0 then I believe we will begin these new ideas.

 

[ArmenTheHeli]

Many reasons why this is flawed.

1. Jacob comes on the build server often, it's not that he goes out of his way to ignore but if he's logged onto the server he's going to respond there and then.
2. Its not favouritism, the players significantly out weight the amount the amount of builders so we're sort of like a filter, taking the good ideas and suggestions directly to him instead of him being swamped
3. It wouldn't take the same amount of time due to my previous statement. There are less builders. We can decide what to bring to him, which is also judged by the way people ask us.
4. There are 2 owners and multiple builders in multiple time zones, its more efficent to come though us.
5. No not asking Jacob to directly respond to most suggestions himself. He spends over half his day doing **** for the server, give him a break.

(going in order of posts)
I didn't talk about the build server at all, I'm not sure why you brought up his time there.

Improving ideas for suggestions (as well as suggesting them) is the reason the suggestions tab on the forum exists. Given the amount of ideas I see there, I doubt the owners would be swamped. Note that I said owners. There is more than one. Not only this, but there is a new dev (who I haven't seen on the forums yet). I think they can look at the 5~10 new ideas in the suggestiond tab, and say wether the idea could be improved. Or they could tell the author that the idea can't be used. 3 people to 10 ideas is about 3 ideas per person.

How do you know this? It should take the same time to read the same idea, regardless of who sent it. Also, why are you deciding what ideas can be suggested? Shouldn't the owners be the ones making that choice?

As I said earlier, we have a suggestions tab. If the owners and the dev all commented on one idea a day, the 10 or so new ideas would be done in just over 3 days. It would keep the flow of ideas to a managable amount, as well as making us forum users see that the owners aren't dead .

Once again you bring up Jacob only, but IgnitingIce still exista, does he not? The dev (who I can't remember the name of because I have only seen him once in game) could also look at ideas, and tell the owners about ones that would be viable for the server.

Can I get an F in chat?

 

[KyronicGaming]

(going in order of posts)
I didn't talk about the build server at all, I'm not sure why you brought up his time there.

Improving ideas for suggestions (as well as suggesting them) is the reason the suggestions tab on the forum exists. Given the amount of ideas I see there, I doubt the owners would be swamped. Note that I said owners. There is more than one. Not only this, but there is a new dev (who I haven't seen on the forums yet). I think they can look at the 5~10 new ideas in the suggestiond tab, and say wether the idea could be improved. Or they could tell the author that the idea can't be used. 3 people to 10 ideas is about 3 ideas per person.

How do you know this? It should take the same time to read the same idea, regardless of who sent it. Also, why are you deciding what ideas can be suggested? Shouldn't the owners be the ones making that choice?

As I said earlier, we have a suggestions tab. If the owners and the dev all commented on one idea a day, the 10 or so new ideas would be done in just over 3 days. It would keep the flow of ideas to a managable amount, as well as making us forum users see that the owners aren't dead .

Once again you bring up Jacob only, but IgnitingIce still exista, does he not? The dev (who I can't remember the name of because I have only seen him once in game) could also look at ideas, and tell the owners about ones that would be viable for the server.

Can I get an F in chat?

Okay you missed the point Armen, He is always on the build server tinkering with stuff, he is always there and because he happens to be there he is willing to talk to us about stuff.

Sure the suggestion tab exists but again Jacob and Brad are way too busy to be doing all they do now and look at the section. It's easier if we bring him the ideas that are worth even considering rather than them having to dig through **** ideas and abusive messages on discord or on the suggestion tab. I'd rather someone make a thing on the suggestion tab and just send it to us for us to decide whether it is worth sending. You think wrong sorry buddy, they have jobs, social lives, and then so much more they have to do to the server, Forcing them to go through **** like in example 2 on top of that is asking too much. you don't have the right.

Also, that dev you mentioned has just as much power as us so what's the difference? The difference is in the numbers of the builders, you will often see us reply on peoples forum suggestions and on some occasions I told them id bring it to Jacob.

I know this because it's easier talking to 5 people than 100, its common sense. We have more fruitful discussions on the build server then you ever will see on the forums because we don't have childish toxic people who decide to make personal attacks and provide no constructive criticisms or solutions to problems. Why do we decide you ask? We decide because we're not brain dead, we know what has a chance to be considered and were not biased about it. The build teams focus keeps changing, its no longer about pumping out the map and that's it. We ourselves make suggestions that Jacob decides will be added, We make skins, We create trailers, We create textures, Etc. We should honestly be renamed to the Development team with all the stuff we do. Jacobs fine with it so get with the program.

You know the owners aren't dead because they do post updates when they believe you guys are ready for an update. There would also be no server

I only bring up Jacob because he's the only one that actively comes on the Build server, Brad works on other stuff and as I said earlier the Dev isn't an owner... He's a dev.

We have a plan for TMD and we know what we're doing with it. The Dev currently has enough on his hand I don't think you grasp the concept of how much time is put into this game whether you're an Owner, Builder or Dev. Just so you know it's a lot.

The post is diverting of the main point which is: Don't be a knob and expect results. This goes for any aspect of life and its basic common knowledge.

Can I get an F in chat?

 

[Cat_Squirrel_Inc]

push for a map maker 2.0

Just like they pushed Mine Wars 2.0....

And we all know how that went.

Tbh, I don't think we should even bother speculating about anything. Why? Because nothing can be guaranteed from this server anymore, and it's been made clear time and time again. I'm not holding my breath for MM. And if MW isn't a priority, why do we have a whole separate rules page for it? *le sigh* Better start lookin' for new MW servers then (if anyone knows of any good ones that are similar/better than Havoc's, hmu)

 

[KyronicGaming]

Just like they pushed Mine Wars 2.0....

And we all know how that went.

Tbh, I don't think we should even bother speculating about anything. Why? Because nothing can be guaranteed from this server anymore, and it's been made clear time and time again. I'm not holding my breath for MM. And if MW isn't a priority, why do we have a whole separate rules page for it? *le sigh* Better start lookin' for new MW servers then (if anyone knows of any good ones that are similar/better than Havoc's, hmu)

None of the builders other than Michael pushed for Minewars 2.0. Mapmaker is the reason we have a build team again, Minewars is a burden

 

[seuboi]

I know this because it's easier talking to 5 people than 100, its common sense. We have more fruitful discussions on the build server then you ever will see on the forums because we don't have childish toxic people who decide to make personal attacks and provide no constructive criticisms or solutions to problems. Why do we decide you ask? We decide because we're not brain dead, we know what has a chance to be considered and were not biased about it.

Hold on, how do you put yourself in charge of gathering whats worth? Since when your opinions reflected the majority of the issues going around here? Are you really responsible on doing that, since we're all brain deads who can't think rationally, like the almighty gods that are you guys?

No wonders so many players have a beef with you staff. Maybe we'd not have this kind of issue if you were not so full of yourself.

 

[KyronicGaming]

Hold on, how do you put yourself in charge of gathering whats worth? Since when your opinions reflected the majority of the issues going around here? Are you really responsible on doing that, since we're all brain deads who can't think rationally, like the almighty gods that are you guys?

No wonders so many players have a beef if you staff guys. Maybe we'd not have this kind of issue if you were not so full of yourself.

I didn't put myself in charge, people can feel free to message Jacob directly. I said we'd decide if you decide to bring it to us, obviously a suggestion such as "Bring back the 1.7 map" I'm not going to bring to Jacob. I didn't say my opinions reflected the majority of the issues going on. In fact, I feel like we do a great job of not being biased. For instance I'd bring something to Jacob thats polite but I disagree with rather than something that I agree with but was asked rudely. When I said we weren't brain dead I wasn't implying you were, I was simply stating the fact that as humans with basic intellect, we're able to sort out what's worth it from what's not.

We're sometimes on over 12 hours a day working for a server who in the end will abuse, harrass, and steal our work.

I'm not full of myself man, I just know my self worth. I know the effort we put into the server and treat myself with that respect. It can come of as me being arrogent but that problems with the person who thinks I am. I know when I am wrong and often apologize to those afterwards who I need too.

 

[MichaelSteve]

None of the builders other than Michael pushed for Minewars 2.0. Mapmaker is the reason we have a build team again, Minewars is a burden

There was a whole minewars team that worked on 2.0. It wasn't just me that wanted to see it happen.

 

[ArmenTheHeli]

Okay you missed the point Armen, He is always on the build server tinkering with stuff, he is always there and because he happens to be there he is willing to talk to us about stuff.

Sure the suggestion tab exists but again Jacob and Brad are way too busy to be doing all they do now and look at the section. It's easier if we bring him the ideas that are worth even considering rather than them having to dig through **** ideas and abusive messages on discord or on the suggestion tab. I'd rather someone make a thing on the suggestion tab and just send it to us for us to decide whether it is worth sending. You think wrong sorry buddy, they have jobs, social lives, and then so much more they have to do to the server, Forcing them to go through **** like in example 2 on top of that is asking too much. you don't have the right.

Also, that dev you mentioned has just as much power as us so what's the difference? The difference is in the numbers of the builders, you will often see us reply on peoples forum suggestions and on some occasions I told them id bring it to Jacob.

I know this because it's easier talking to 5 people than 100, its common sense. We have more fruitful discussions on the build server then you ever will see on the forums because we don't have childish toxic people who decide to make personal attacks and provide no constructive criticisms or solutions to problems. Why do we decide you ask? We decide because we're not brain dead, we know what has a chance to be considered and were not biased about it. The build teams focus keeps changing, its no longer about pumping out the map and that's it. We ourselves make suggestions that Jacob decides will be added, We make skins, We create trailers, We create textures, Etc. We should honestly be renamed to the Development team with all the stuff we do. Jacobs fine with it so get with the program.

You know the owners aren't dead because they do post updates when they believe you guys are ready for an update. There would also be no server

I only bring up Jacob because he's the only one that actively comes on the Build server, Brad works on other stuff and as I said earlier the Dev isn't an owner... He's a dev.

We have a plan for TMD and we know what we're doing with it. The Dev currently has enough on his hand I don't think you grasp the concept of how much time is put into this game whether you're an Owner, Builder or Dev. Just so you know it's a lot.

The post is diverting of the main point which is: Don't be a knob and expect results. This goes for any aspect of life and its basic common knowledge.

Can I get an F in chat?

No F

Anyways I'm just gonna touch on a few points because I have school work to do.

The dev is one of the creators behind the game code. He can tell us what could be made and what could not be made. If a suggestion to add something that is hard to code is made, he can tell us that. If an idea could be coded, but the idea needs tweaks, he can tell us that too. So in this respect, he has more power than builders. If the suggestion is map related, THEN builders would have more power, as you guys are the ones in charge of the map.

Moving to the part where you say they need to look at all the ideas: If they won't look at any ideas, can they at least get a community manager to look at the ideas and give the creator of the idea feedback? I doubt anyone likes having their idea ignored, and by not posting any sort of response all we can do is assume the idea. Also, having a list of previously suggested ideas would be good so repeat suggestions are reduced.

Last point:If the development team (owners, devs, and builders) really have a solid plan, why do you guys refuse to share it with us?

 

[KyronicGaming]

There was a whole minewars team that worked on 2.0. It wasn't just me that wanted to see it happen.

Micheal let's be realistic here, no builder other than you has the heart or motivation for the gamemode. Even if Jacob asked us to do it I doubt it'd get done.

 

[KyronicGaming]

No F

Anyways I'm just gonna touch on a few points because I have school work to do.

The dev is one of the creators behind the game code. He can tell us what could be made and what could not be made. If a suggestion to add something that is hard to code is made, he can tell us that. If an idea could be coded, but the idea needs tweaks, he can tell us that too. So in this respect, he has more power than builders. If the suggestion is map related, THEN builders would have more power, as you guys are the ones in charge of the map.

Moving to the part where you say they need to look at all the ideas: If they won't look at any ideas, can they at least get a community manager to look at the ideas and give the creator of the idea feedback? I doubt anyone likes having their idea ignored, and by not posting any sort of response all we can do is assume the idea. Also, having a list of previously suggested ideas would be good so repeat suggestions are reduced.

Last point:If the development team (owners, devs, and builders) really have a solid plan, why do you guys refuse to share it with us?

Lemme split it too, its easier.

1. Yeah I agree but we spoke about suggestions vaguely, we didn't specify whether we were solely on about map suggestions or function suggestions, but either way, the other party has a say. If a person came up to JB, Me or another builder and said "Why don't you add a helicopter" We have enough sense to say that's not going to happen and not to bring it to Jacob just as if someone went to the Dev and said " Why don't you redo the whole map" He would have enough sense to say no and not have to bother Jacob about it. Again you're missing the point of they're swamped with work. We're simply helping nothing more but if we didn't we'd be called out for it by the people who ask without us offering.
2. I did mention this earlier to @seuboi on another post but I think @JBentley694 should become community manager and do stuff like that because of his builder newsletters. But don't you get that he'd be doing the same thing we already do now. You're basically asking him or other builders if they got it to carry on with what you're doing. Your first point is that us builders don't have the means or capability to filter through ideas that we get sent without asking and sending the good ones to Jacob. But now your second point is asking someone to have the role to do exactly that except its all directed at one person. What's the point? They won't talk about it like we do either, you'd only have their point of view and no one challenging it during talks like we do on the build server. And even if we did do this, people would still come to us with ideas so what's the point!! We're happy doing it, We're doing a good job, It gives us stuff to talk about whilst creating? I kinda don't see the point in changing it up because you're personally unhappy with it when many others are.
3. Many reasons, but saying them would give it away anyway. Works being done and talks are being talked.

 

[ArmenTheHeli]

Lemme split it too, its easier.

1. Yeah I agree but we spoke about suggestions vaguely, we didn't specify whether we were solely on about map suggestions or function suggestions, but either way, the other party has a say. If a person came up to JB, Me or another builder and said "Why don't you add a helicopter" We have enough sense to say that's not going to happen and not to bring it to Jacob just as if someone went to the Dev and said " Why don't you redo the whole map" He would have enough sense to say no and not have to bother Jacob about it. Again you're missing the point of they're swamped with work. We're simply helping nothing more but if we didn't we'd be called out for it by the people who ask without us offering.
2. I did mention this earlier to @seuboi on another post but I think @JBentley694 should become community manager and do stuff like that because of his builder newsletters. But don't you get that he'd be doing the same thing we already do now. You're basically asking him or other builders if they got it to carry on with what you're doing. Your first point is that us builders don't have the means or capability to filter through ideas that we get sent without asking and sending the good ones to Jacob. But now your second point is asking someone to have the role to do exactly that except its all directed at one person. What's the point? They won't talk about it like we do either, you'd only have their point of view and no one challenging it during talks like we do on the build server. And even if we did do this, people would still come to us with ideas so what's the point!! We're happy doing it, We're doing a good job, It gives us stuff to talk about whilst creating? I kinda don't see the point in changing it up because you're personally unhappy with it when many others are.

I mean if someone came to you with a code suggestion I would assume you would send them to the development team, and if the devs got a map suggestion they would send it to you :/
Anyways JB would be good community manager, but I think there should be a community manager for build suggestions (probably JB) and a second one for gameplay stuff, that way it gives better communication as well as preventing the managers from being swamped by different issues.

I didn't say builders don't have the means to filter ideas, what are you smoking bb?

Final note, but I am not the only person unhappy with the current system. It not only removes the point of the suggestions tab on the forums, but it also makes it hard for new players to know who to contact for suggestions. Typically, suggestions are either sent in a form/ posted in a forum, or the ideas are sent to a labeled developer. Havoc is wonky and beanboozles the norm, so instead of having a labeled person to send ideas to, new players (and some old players) are left sending our ideas to all of the staff team (both moderation and build) in hopes of getting an idea viewed. I think it would make more sense to have a community manager (or a few community managers, since the low amount of recent suggestions is "overwhelming") so it is easy for us to know who specifically is in charge of reviewing suggestions. This would also bring some use to the suggestions section, as ideas posted there can be improved on publicly, which allows others to help improve the ideas.

Anyways i'm enjoying this conversation, it's one of the most civil ones i've had on the forums since I started here.

 

[JT900]

None of the builders other than Michael pushed for Minewars 2.0. Mapmaker is the reason we have a build team again, Minewars is a burden

How dare you say that about one of the best Havoc game modes (not including the abuse it's been taking from staff members)! And yes, people will agree with me on that.
It's a burden because you guys are too lazy to put any sort of effort into it.
I don't want to hear excuses. Excuses are why Havoc is dying.

Just like they pushed Mine Wars 2.0....

And we all know how that went.

Tbh, I don't think we should even bother speculating about anything. Why? Because nothing can be guaranteed from this server anymore, and it's been made clear time and time again. I'm not holding my breath for MM. And if MW isn't a priority, why do we have a whole separate rules page for it? *le sigh* Better start lookin' for new MW servers then (if anyone knows of any good ones that are similar/better than Havoc's, hmu)

DM me on Discord, I'll help look for IPs.

Hold on, how do you put yourself in charge of gathering whats worth? Since when your opinions reflected the majority of the issues going around here? Are you really responsible on doing that, since we're all brain deads who can't think rationally, like the almighty gods that are you guys?

No wonders so many players have a beef with you staff. Maybe we'd not have this kind of issue if you were not so full of yourself.

That was great. And you make a point.
Staff won't listen because they don't want to listen. It's sad, really.