Havoc, what's going on??

[ArmenTheHeli]

Rant coming in hot, prepare your ears.

Ok lil boys and girls, there are some serious problems that we are gonna fix together. I've made a list of the top things iv'e noticed recently, and I would like some answers, preferably from and admin, and only an admin, because they seem the least biased (they aren't seen on the forums, so that is the basis for my statement).

1st and foremost: HavocMC staff
In what I think were the words in one of @xDeclanLee 's videos "Havoc, get your sh*t together". Hes right. The owners are trying to do too much alone. Have you seen their posts recently? Look closely. You can see the level of stress they are under. If you want to use 1.8 mechanics, put it on OPTMD with all of the guys who can't play without pains. Some of us actually want a survival experience. (this leads to the 2nd point) Continuing, we now drop down to the moderators. From what im hearing, half of the staff got there solely by being recommended by other staff. Do you see a problem with that? Staff vote who else is staff. Im gonna make a little scenario here, enjoy.
So we are in a court. (the server)
The judges, Nickk, Ignitingice, and jacobg, have found a criminal. There is also a jury (the other staff). 3/4 of the "jury" are criminals who help other criminals. So, at the end of the trial, its time for the jury to vote what happens to the criminal. The criminal is set free, not because he is innocent, but because his friends voted his freedom. Is that not a problem? Owners and owners alone should be the ones picking the staff for their server. Also, it seems there have been specific... unnamed... staff who have been abusing their privilege. Admins and owners, plz just watch the staff better? Ok? Not all staff are bad, but some of them are pushing the limit of what they can do as staff.

3rd point. Your resetting Havoc Horizons. The reason of "there was money farming" is fine, but that isn't fair to everyone who is losing all of their stuff. When Horizins resets, make sure you've planned it better. A 2nd reset of HH would just be depressing ;-;

Hope you enjoyed the rant, but before I go, one message to all of the players who complained about every freaking thing that the owners came up with to try and make the server better for your enjoyment. That server that you had so many problems with, but didn't do anything about those problems. That server that you could have just left if you didn't like. For all of those players, and you know who you are:

Screw you.

This post was edited from the original post, and will continue to be edited as issues are solved. If this post goes down to something like "everything is fixed", then we know things have changed for the better, in a very extreme way.

 

[Lmusic0505]

Rant coming in hot, prepare your ears.

Ok lil boys and girls, there are some serious problems that we are gonna fix together. I've made a list of the top things iv'e noticed recently, and I would like some answers, preferably from and admin, and only an admin, because they seem the least biased (they aren't seen on the forums, so that is the basis for my statement).

1st and foremost: HavocMC staff
In what I think were the words in one of @xDeclanLee 's videos "Havoc, get your sh*t together". Hes right. So first off, the owners are practically dead inside. Have you seen their posts recently? Look closely. You can see the level of stress they are under. Most noteably in @_Nickk 's post, he basically says 'were gonna take 7 months of building and coding, throw it away, and bring back the old map". WHY? That was 7 months of work. Why would you just trash it? That's unfair to everyone on the server. If you want to use 1.8 mechanics, put it on OPTMD with all of the guys who can't play without pains go. Some of us actually want a survival experience. (this leads to the 2nd point) Continuing, we now drop down to the moderators. From what im hearing, half of the staff got there solely by being recommended by other staff. Do you see a problem with that? Staff vote who else is staff. Im gonna make a little scenario here, enjoy.
So we are in a court. (the server)
The judges, Nickk, Ignitingice, and jacobg, have found a criminal. There is also a jury (the other staff). 3/4 of the "jury" are criminals who help other criminals. So, at the end of the trial, its time for the jury to vote what happens to the criminal. The criminal is set free, not because he is innocent, but because his friends voted his freedom. Is that not a problem? Owners and owners alone should be the ones picking the staff for their server. Also, it seems there have been specific... unnamed... staff who have been abusing their privilege. Admins and owners, plz just watch the staff better? Ok? Not all staff are bad, but some of them are pushing the limit of what they can do as staff.
2nd point (the one I spoke about earlier). "New smaller map" Bull. How long did you spend building the new map? Very little, right? Who did build the map? The builders, of course! How many of them were fine with you throwing away 7 months of their work, just because some whiny players got triggered because they couldn't get cars easily? I haven't seen a single new player complain about the survival experience. Not one. It's only the old players, who were used to farming cars. So you decided to compromise, by making OPTMD. But now your just removing the whole map, just to replace it with a "better" version of the old map? Ok, now the only thing setting us apart from exo's knockoff tmd server is some fancy code. Oh wait, half of that code won't be usable in the update? Well nuts, now the only difference is player base... his server is every TMD player who was either banned or quit because of the stuff going on here. You better give the builders heavy compensation for the waste of 7 months of building.
3rd point. Your resetting Havoc Horizons. The reason of "there was money farming" is fine, but that isn't fair to everyone who is losing all of their stuff. When Horizins resets, make sure you've planned it better. A 2nd reset of HH would just be bad planning on your part.

Hope you enjoyed the rant, but before I go, one message to all of the players who complained about every freaking thing that the owners came up with to try and make the server better for your enjoyment. That server that you had so many problems with, but didn't do anything about those problems. That server that you could have just left if you didn't like. For all of those players, and you know who you are:

Screw you.

You have a point. This server is falling apart

 

[Katitude]

Unfortunately I'm not an Admin to suit your needs, but I'll do my best to help you, and I will try to make it brief. I'd like to say the owners are under stress, and I can see why with all of the new features, changes etc. Calling them dead inside isn't very nice, and you could always do them a favour and ask if you could help, suggest new things or ways to reduce their stress instead of stating "they have stress", etc. If they decide to go back to the old map, note how Nick created a thread to ask what the players think. As staff, I can see that the owners will do what they can for the people, and if it means resorting to the other map, that will take place. The builders are builders, and with all due respect, it is their job. They signed up for the position, and despite the possible removal of the new map, I would take pride in the work they created. I hope I've done a lot for you all, and in situations similar to this, I would look for the good instead of complaining without a solution. If you believe a staff member is abusing their powers, please privately message me and I will take the report into investigation and we're always here to help. I like to say I won't be bias if you report staff I'm friends with, because I don't believe in favouritsm and if they signed up for the position and didn't do their job, there are concequences that take place once we discover the problem in the first place. To be honest, I won't go into detail on Exo's server as I wouldn't waste my time talking about it. You may not see players' disturbance of how large the new map is, though we've gotten many reports on how difficult it is to do anything without dying of starvation, and other problems that have been expressed to us privately or even in public. If the players overrule the idea of reverting to the old map, that would make players happier and even contribute to our player base rising and even ensuring our service to you all is positive. In life, we will always encounter haters or people that do not defend our actions and ideas, but I find the majority would tell us which is the better decision, as everyone has a right to vote on the poll, and if a vote isn't made, they are only voting for the decision they don't care for. We are resetting Havoc Horizons due to complications we didn't see before releasing the gamemode, which is undoubtedly our fault, and we apologize greatly for that; I can see how annoying that would be as a player. The builders are volunteers, and didn't demand compensations, although if they are incredibly upset by the removal of the map instead of cherishing the hard work and effort put into the map, then the owners would handle that situation. As stated prior in this message, instead of stating there aren't problems, please help us instead of complaining, or don't say anything at all.

Thank you very much for listening and please message me privately of any questions or concerns you may have; as a final note, please leave all negativity out of this thread as of this moment, or I will unfortunately have to lock this thread that has a right to free positive discussion.

Yours Kindly,
~Katitude <3

 

[Katitude]

"Im not leaving, this is my server as much as it is yours. Also, which part of the post did you not like? me calling out staff, or showing how much unnecessary stress the owners are under? Or the fact that the builder's work could just be thrown out. Why would that even be in question? Why is throwing out all of that work an option? As for the last line of your post, read the first line of my post. "Rant coming in hot, prepare your ears."

I think Havoc is a great server, it is, but it's descent into "crap" has started. I don't think anyone here wants that, right? But to stop that, things need to change. Of course, some of these changes have already happened. Gr8! But there need to be more changes, not necessarily to the game, but to things like reports, staff acceptance process, and planning new things (In my opinion, planning new minigames should be a community process, so the creators of the minigame know exactly what the community wants, so when they publish the minigame people will want less things changed)"

Please read my comment, thank you. Pointing out what someone else said won't help your situation; this is positive feedback that will help you. ^-^

 

[ArmenTheHeli]

Unfortunately I'm not an Admin to suit your needs, but I'll do my best to help you, and I will try to make it brief. I'd like to say the owners are under stress, and I can see why with all of the new features, changes etc. Calling them dead inside isn't very nice, and you could always do them a favour and ask if you could help, suggest new things or ways to reduce their stress instead of stating "they have stress", etc. If they decide to go back to the old map, note how Nick created a thread to ask what the players think. As staff, I can see that the owners will do what they can for the people, and if it means resorting to the other map, that will take place. The builders are builders, and with all due respect, it is their job. They signed up for the position, and despite the possible removal of the new map, I would take pride in the work they created. I hope I've done a lot for you all, and in situations similar to this, I would look for the good instead of complaining without a solution. If you believe a staff member is abusing their powers, please privately message me and I will take the report into investigation and we're always here to help. I like to say I won't be bias if you report staff I'm friends with, because I don't believe in favouritsm and if they signed up for the position and didn't do their job, there are concequences that take place once we discover the problem in the first place. To be honest, I won't go into detail on Exo's server as I wouldn't waste my time talking about it. You may not see players' disturbance of how large the new map is, though we've gotten many reports on how difficult it is to do anything without dying of starvation, and other problems that have been expressed to us privately or even in public. If the players overrule the idea of reverting to the old map, that would make players happier and even contribute to our player base rising and even ensuring our service to you all is positive. In life, we will always encounter haters or people that do not defend our actions and ideas, but I find the majority would tell us which is the better decision, as everyone has a right to vote on the poll, and if a vote isn't made, they are only voting for the decision they don't care for. We are resetting Havoc Horizons due to complications we didn't see before releasing the gamemode, which is undoubtedly our fault, and we apologize greatly for that; I can see how annoying that would be as a player. The builders are volunteers, and didn't demand compensations, although if they are incredibly upset by the removal of the map instead of cherishing the hard work and effort put into the map, then the owners would handle that situation. As stated prior in this message, instead of stating there aren't problems, please help us instead of complaining, or don't say anything at all.

Thank you very much for listening and please message me privately of any questions or concerns you may have; as a final note, please leave all negativity out of this thread as of this moment, or I will unfortunately have to lock this thread that has a right to free positive discussion.

Yours Kindly,
~Katitude <3

"Ask if you can help" I tried, they didn't react.
"Msg me if a staff is abusing" I like the offer, but honestly I don't know which staff to trust. Im taking the advice of someone on the forums (I believe it was Cupelo) and directly messaging the owners.

As for the poll on the recent thread. Erm I was reviewing the voters of that poll, and majority were the guys who play OPTMD. I think to fix the map issue, we could put a smaller map on OPTMD, and maybe make "car shells" a findable item (since the car spawners are broken) that way player movement isn't as hard. For the car shell, im thinking the same item, but with a black hood (to look like there is no engine) and no tires. This would also deter scamming (some people don't read item tags) so if someone is not reading the nametag, the car shell would look different from a generic, working car. Im glad a staff member agrees the server needs change, and if you (or anyone) has a problem with the server, msg me on here or on my discord server https://discord.gg/Y6VwGzD (please put this in the TMD text channel <3) and I will try to think of a solution. Hopefully this thread will push positive change, and if I am muted, banned, or completely hated by the community (but there is a positive change), I will take it all with glee.

"Im not leaving, this is my server as much as it is yours. Also, which part of the post did you not like? me calling out staff, or showing how much unnecessary stress the owners are under? Or the fact that the builder's work could just be thrown out. Why would that even be in question? Why is throwing out all of that work an option? As for the last line of your post, read the first line of my post. "Rant coming in hot, prepare your ears."

I think Havoc is a great server, it is, but it's descent into "crap" has started. I don't think anyone here wants that, right? But to stop that, things need to change. Of course, some of these changes have already happened. Gr8! But there need to be more changes, not necessarily to the game, but to things like reports, staff acceptance process, and planning new things (In my opinion, planning new minigames should be a community process, so the creators of the minigame know exactly what the community wants, so when they publish the minigame people will want less things changed)"

Please read my comment, thank you. Pointing out what someone else said won't help your situation; this is positive feedback that will help you. ^-^

Sorry that comment hadn't loaded during me posting that post XD

 

[DragonClaw0043]

Do staff members get perks

 

[ArmenTheHeli]

Do staff members get perks

Just commands to monitor things, I don't know if staff receive any monetary payment for their service. They also get **** nametags

 

[_Nickk]

First off, we are in no way throwing away the builders' work. What we're actually doing, is taking the new builds, and putting them in a smaller map. We're not going back to the old one, but rather using the builds to make new ones. In fact, a lot of the builders are very excited about being able to plan everything out better.

As for staff, the owners aren't able to pick new staff. We are pulling the strings behind the scenes, and don't communicate with players on a day to day basis. Also, we get hundreds of applications. It makes more sense for staff members who are on the server, and who see what people act like, to pick staff. If Owners picked staff, it would be only by application, which wouldn't work well.

As for the cyanide in your description, I suggest you search the deep web. A few searches on Amazon and Ebay aren't giving any results.

 

[ArmenTheHeli]

First off, we are in no way throwing away the builders' work. What we're actually doing, is taking the new builds, and putting them in a smaller map. We're not going back to the old one, but rather using the builds to make new ones. In fact, a lot of the builders are very excited about being able to plan everything out better.

As for staff, the owners aren't able to pick new staff. We are pulling the strings behind the scenes, and don't communicate with players on a day to day basis. Also, we get hundreds of applications. It makes more sense for staff members who are on the server, and who see what people act like, to pick staff. If Owners picked staff, it would be only by application, which wouldn't work well.

As for the cyanide in your description, I suggest you search the deep web. A few searches on Amazon and Ebay aren't giving any results.

Didn't think anyone would answer my sig, so thank you, though I decided not to search deepweb sources due to implications it could bring to my family or friends. Im going back to edit the original post, I saw that the new map was just "moving the builds closer" after the main post. Didn't know the application system was so backed up, so I guess it makes more sense having the mods do it. Would having a separate team solely for reviewing applications work better? That way staff can do what staff do, and another staff division could handle the applications. Just an idea *shrug*

 

[_Nickk]

Didn't think anyone would answer my sig, so thank you, though I decided not to search deepweb sources due to implications it could bring to my family or friends. Im going back to edit the original post, I saw that the new map was just "moving the builds closer" after the main post. Didn't know the application system was so backed up, so I guess it makes more sense having the mods do it. Would having a separate team solely for reviewing applications work better? That way staff can do what staff do, and another staff division could handle the applications. Just an idea *shrug*

If you believe there is a problem and you believe staff accept other people they are friends with, then if that happened, it could still happen with a separate team.

 

[StephenPeters]

If you believe there is a problem and you believe staff accept other people they are friends with, then if that happened, it could still happen with a separate team.

I interpret this as "There is nothing we can do about this because situations like this is unavoidable". Correct me if I am wrong please.

 

[ArmenTheHeli]

If you believe there is a problem and you believe staff accept other people they are friends with, then if that happened, it could still happen with a separate team.

Hmm... what if we had blank applications? Any player names are censored, including the applicants, so there is no bias. So if I applied and said things like
"Oh Person_You_Hate is my friend", or "I reported Insert_Friends_Name for Insert_reason_here and she got banned" would not affect choices?

 

[_Tachi_]

Not sure of this is the right thread, but will harts be back in the new map? If not, will any (decently sized) military establishment be present?

 

[StephenPeters]

There is something i would like to point out.

If you believe a staff member is abusing their powers, please privately message me and I will take the report into investigation and we're always here to help. I like to say I won't be bias if you report staff I'm friends with, because I don't believe in favouritsm and if they signed up for the position and didn't do their job, there are concequences that take place once we discover the problem in the first place.

As stated prior in this message, instead of stating there aren't problems, please help us instead of complaining, or don't say anything at all.

Thank you very much for listening and please message me privately of any questions or concerns you may have; as a final note, please leave all negativity out of this thread as of this moment, or I will unfortunately have to lock this thread that has a right to free positive discussion.

"If you believe a staff member is abusing their powers, please privately message me and I will take the report into investigation and we're always here to help. I like to say I won't be bias if you report staff I'm friends with, because I don't believe in favouritsm and if they signed up for the position and didn't do their job, there are concequences that take place once we discover the problem in the first place."

Players opinions matter....

Are you sure you're not talking to the reply below yours?

RIP Emilia one of my favorite staff on TMD because she was fiery and would fight back I hope all staff can learn something from this, take out the bad memories of Em and replace it with good, goodbye Em RIP 2016-2017 Good staff through most and a good friend too all forever to come <3

I think this needs to be addressed by someone. Completely immature and a bad reflection on the staff team. Maybe you didn't mean these comments to be sassy or rude, but that's how they seem. If you did mean for them to be rude, truly saddening that someone who targets a player to be rude to them is on the staff team. :I (If you truly didn't mean it in a bad way, I'm sorry, but you need to edit those posts because they are going to read as extremely rude)

speaking o bad staff member(s), how does one do anything about it? Sending a player repot wouldn't do anything, because they wherent hacking :/

Link to original thread:
https://havocmc.net/threads/perhaps-the-last-thread-bye.2808/

Players opinions matter? Right?

 

[StephenPeters]

1st and foremost: HavocMC staff
In what I think were the words in one of @xDeclanLee 's videos "Havoc, get your sh*t together". Hes right. The owners are trying to do too much alone. Have you seen their posts recently? Look closely. You can see the level of stress they are under. If you want to use 1.8 mechanics, put it on OPTMD with all of the guys who can't play without pains. Some of us actually want a survival experience. (this leads to the 2nd point) Continuing, we now drop down to the moderators. From what im hearing, half of the staff got there solely by being recommended by other staff. Do you see a problem with that? Staff vote who else is staff. Im gonna make a little scenario here, enjoy.
So we are in a court. (the server)
The judges, Nickk, Ignitingice, and jacobg, have found a criminal. There is also a jury (the other staff). 3/4 of the "jury" are criminals who help other criminals. So, at the end of the trial, its time for the jury to vote what happens to the criminal. The criminal is set free, not because he is innocent, but because his friends voted his freedom. Is that not a problem? Owners and owners alone should be the ones picking the staff for their server. Also, it seems there have been specific... unnamed... staff who have been abusing their privilege. Admins and owners, plz just watch the staff better? Ok? Not all staff are bad, but some of them are pushing the limit of what they can do as staff.

My comments are all based on this. Thanks Armen for having the courage of putting this here.

 

[StephenPeters]

This post was edited from the original post, and will continue to be edited as issues are solved. If this post goes down to something like "everything is fixed", then we know things have changed for the better, in a very extreme way.

Welcome to contact me if you guys would like to see the unedited version.

 

[ArmenTheHeli]

Welcome to contact me if you guys would like to see the unedited version.

Lol I don't even have the unedited one feel free to share it though, just don't get me in trouble XD

 

[StephenPeters]

Lol I don't even have the unedited one feel free to share it though, just don't get me in trouble XD

Trouble....where will that be coming from i wonder. Speaking out our own opinions and pointing out facts should not be able to get us in trouble. Plus we are doing it in a rather polite way. There shouldn't be troubles as long as whoever gets called out can control their tempers, right?

 

[ArmenTheHeli]

Trouble....where will that be coming from i wonder. Speaking out our own opinions and pointing out facts should not be able to get us in trouble. Plus we are doing it in a rather polite way. There shouldn't be troubles as long as whoever gets called out can control their tempers, right?

meh, I cant trust alot of people on here right now. Havoc kinda reminds me of the us government. Speaking out = you disappear. (or in havoc's case, either get reprimanded or they make people hate you) I get the feeling a staff member will quote this post...

 

[ArmenTheHeli]

Hmm... what if we had blank applications? Any player names are censored, including the applicants, so there is no bias. So if I applied and said things like
"Oh Person_You_Hate is my friend", or "I reported Insert_Friends_Name for Insert_reason_here and she got banned" would not affect choices?

Sorry to double post, does anyone think this would work/have ideas to make it better?