Everyone Please Read.

[Cat_Squirrel_Inc]

To what @general2673 was saying, based on what I’ve witnessed - in the most unbiased way - peach is not the beneficial and considerate staff member that he was before; this isn’t a comment to bash Peach either, he turned into a bad person, and the server would gain a toxic staff member if he ever returned to staff. I know you were with peach on when the communication errors occurred between you two and the other confused staff members, and I’m surprised you still think he’d be beneficial to Havoc after that incident. I’m extremely shocked that you can confidently see him as a leader. I’ll respect your opinion, but that’d be very disappointing if he ever became staff again

Respect +100

 

[DDENGAR]

Wait, @general2673 my guy, isn't that what the lower two staff ranks are supposed to do? Like mute people? Umm, I thought a CM would be meant for just taking people's ideas/requests to improve the server

Plus that's a hell lot for one guy...shouldn't we get more of them...

Or we could go back to the Player council idea, which actually gives us sort of a democracy and say over things

 

[Bulleteater]

i think you may have slightly missed the point of what the community manager would be. it would not be about "control" this player would try to resolve conflicts on the forums. the staff would take action if this manager failed to contain the problem. in that way they are only a buffer between an argument and a thread being locked.

second this person would not be the sole player representative of havoc. they would be a sort of middleman between the owners and players. the owners cant listen to everyone. it would be the community manager's job to find key threads or ideas and send them to the owners regardless of their own opinions on it. in turn this player would have discussions with the owners and be in charge of releasing update information or maybe just answer questions about them.

lastly this person would be a prime example that players exist that try to unify the community, not tear it apart. this would be the ideal form of a community manager in my eyes. they would have no perms. their power would lie in their access to information and how they handle conflict.
if the post was ever filled its possible only some of this would be used. but thats what we are discussing.

a person that keeps the peace, not punishes the people who break it. think of the community manager like a riot officer that just blocks you. not the guy that takes you down. you violate a rule, one will respond. this post would at the very least be about stopping problems before they start not reacting to a problem. to those that complain about locked threads, this guy would be your ally.

This honest-to-god is just what helpers should be doing, besides the whole not-getting-perms thing.

This job should probably be a one-off job above helper, if anything. I don’t see the point in them not having the exact same permissions if not more if they’re the only one of their kind.

if we’re going to follow what your description is the helpers might as well just do it

 

[Katitude]

Since when did a community manager need perms...the point of the community manager when Peach started it was finding someone without any power to control others. If we as a community cannot even nominate a frickin person to voice our opinions, count me out

And if one of y'all think this is in any way rude, then you simply want to interpret it that way, if you can't keep your mouth shut about the past, then who is going to prevent you from bypassing all the nonspoken rules made from this community? Or even rules in general?
I would love to see someone nominated by staff and the higher-ups. None of our requests will be able to go through because we still like before have to go through a process of self-appointed judges that need to look through simple requests the community (as simple players) has repeatedly asked for since forever.

If you think I'm ruining this thread by speaking the same thing the community has asked forever, start deleting them like YouTube comments since y'all still want to look like saints.

We as a community are tired of people who keep on making new tags for themselves as staff members instead of listening to the ignored, continuously asked for, and frustrating requests us the community has requested from the owners.

We shouldn't need some third party to be able to voice our opinions as investors/consumers for this server.

If you don't wake up and start listening a little more to the players, then you may need to find a completely new community who can take more of this abuse...

When peach was a community manager, he had permissions of a Sr Mod+, since he was already one. I believe that everyone has different definitions of a community/media manager, or most people have a certain idea for a comm. manager.

I made a google document of what a community manager should do: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QGBxjMBP1Bse02k9Yz-4BF6bahvLcWyGETd0u1yILy8/edit?usp=sharing

If you are ruining this thread, then Beetley will delete your comment. Generalizations like that mean you should probably get a glass of water and relax for a bit, before coming back to this thread.

I am apart of the community, and I am tired of the lack of change. I'm sorry that you're tired of people requesting tags so communication can be altered/improved; I feel like you're misinterpreting the role of a community manager, with all due respect.

Again, the role of a community manager is to wake up and start listening to players - as you said. Creating a community manager isn't abuse, as it's an opportunity to improve communication, which is essentially one of the biggest factors that are making players irritated. (as well as staff and builders)

Edit: As I said, Peach wasn't the best community manager, and it's understandable because it was the first time that role was tested. "If we as a community cannot even nominate a frickin person to voice our opinions, count me out" You can most definitely give your input for who you'd think would be an eligible candidate, but from my staffing experience, not all the players know enough about a player, and it's the type of situation where players have a voice in the matter, but the staff team needs to take control so players aren't blindly making a choice on who voices ALL of the concerns of HavocMC players. This isn't me saying that players will make blind decisions, but my point is that we need to be careful about who would get that type of role.

"And if one of y'all think this is in any way rude, then you simply want to interpret it that way, if you can't keep your mouth shut about the past, then who is going to prevent you from bypassing all the nonspoken rules made from this community? Or even rules in general?"

I think it's pretty rude to hint that people need to "keep their mouth shut about the past". Learning from the past is the crucial way to prepare for the success of the future. I think the comment you just made is rude, and I'm not going to bash you. I understand where you're coming from, but we can't just not pay attention to hiccups in the past, and solely focus on the future. If we didn't shut up about the past, numerous ideas that Kyritic mentioned in his video would not have been said, or suggested, or stated, etc.

When it comes to your comment, "who is going to prevent you from bypassing all the nonspoken rules made from this community? Or even rules in general?" I'm not entirely sure what you mean, if you're able to elaborate.

 

[DDENGAR]

When peach was a community manager, he had permissions of a Sr Mod+, since he was already one. I believe that everyone has different definitions of a community/media manager, or most people have a certain idea for a comm. manager.

I made a google document of what a community manager should do: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QGBxjMBP1Bse02k9Yz-4BF6bahvLcWyGETd0u1yILy8/edit?usp=sharing

If you are ruining this thread, then Beetley will delete your comment. Generalizations like that mean you should probably get a glass of water and relax for a bit, before coming back to this thread.

I am apart of the community, and I am tired of the lack of change. I'm sorry that you're tired of people requesting tags so communication can be altered/improved; I feel like you're misinterpreting the role of a community manager, with all due respect.

Again, the role of a community manager is to wake up and start listening to players - as you said. Creating a community manager isn't abuse, as it's an opportunity to improve communication, which is essentially one of the biggest factors that are making players irritated. (as well as staff and builders)

Edit: As I said, Peach wasn't the best community manager, and it's understandable because it was the first time that role was tested. "If we as a community cannot even nominate a frickin person to voice our opinions, count me out" You can most definitely give your input for who you'd think would be an eligible candidate, but from my staffing experience, not all the players know enough about a player, and it's the type of situation where players have a voice in the matter, but the staff team needs to take control so players aren't blindly making a choice on who voices ALL of the concerns of HavocMC players. This isn't me saying that players will make blind decisions, but my point is that we need to be careful about who would get that type of role.

"And if one of y'all think this is in any way rude, then you simply want to interpret it that way, if you can't keep your mouth shut about the past, then who is going to prevent you from bypassing all the nonspoken rules made from this community? Or even rules in general?"

I think it's pretty rude to hint that people need to "keep their mouth shut about the past". Learning from the past is the crucial way to prepare for the success of the future. I think the comment you just made is rude, and I'm not going to bash you. I understand where you're coming from, but we can't just not pay attention to hiccups in the past, and solely focus on the future. If we didn't shut up about the past, numerous ideas that Kyritic mentioned in his video would not have been said, or suggested, or stated, etc.

When it comes to your comment, "who is going to prevent you from bypassing all the nonspoken rules made from this community? Or even rules in general?" I'm not entirely sure what you mean, if you're able to elaborate.

Removed Disrespectful/Off-Topic paragraph. - Staff

(Back to Topic) I always believed that the middle man thing didn't work because it's what we are still doing up to now. We have staff members "reviewing" the requests/complaints and then giving us their input of the idea instead of knowing if the owners were actually reading our stuff we suggested. If staff was feeding the owners everything we said then we shouldn't have gotten so many problems. The reason is because the owners probably didn't actually read our stuff and listened to their third party members instead(the staff) and that is maybe why none of these updates were successful because nobody actually got what they were asking for. Probably due to somebody changing our ideas before the owners saw it, or the owners are listening to the wrong sources.

It would be more gratifying and assuring if our owners were replying to our threads instead of the staff replying: "Oh! I like this idea too! Imma send this up the ladder!"

My conclusion is maybe the staff were changing our ideas as the middle men for the owners to see.

An analogy would be like how if Trump listened to his sources and only got polarized/manipulated news about the world and decided off of those "fake news" to run our country. Of course then, it could be that our owners are ignoring us and the staff team just like what Trump does to his analysts... If the owners listened to the players and not the staff, how can things go wrong? Isn't it better for a majority to be listened to or just of some hand-picked individuals?

It's your choice...

 

[JBentley694]

Oh my lord, children please enough of the arguments on this thread. This thread was meant to try and bring some type of resolution and understanding between people and it ended up into a big argument over community manager. Honestly at this point I don't even see a need for a community manager if all its going to do is cause arguments of whos fit or what that persons capabilities should be. A council isn't a bad idea but it has just as many flaws as a singular representative. You cant please everyone and at the end of the day someone is going to go home less happy then others sorry but that's just the way life works.

Like kyritic said in his video we listen to all suggestions and provide feedback on why or why not they cant be done but everyone freaks out and gets upset because one of says it and apparently to some our words don't matter even though we ask the owners and developers about such and such and relay the message back people choose not to listen and rather hear an owner tell them the exact same thing we have been saying for the past few months over the same topic no less.

 

[KyronicGaming]

@DDENGAR @Cat_Squirrel_Inc Public request to stop ruining this thread for those who actual want to help. You may not believe in it but its selfish to ruin it for those who do. Thanks.

 

[seuboi]

I like many of the ideas you guys have been putting here, from the lack of responsibilities (staff and players) to some wrongly commitments made at this point.
After giving some time to let it sink in this quote from general still lingers to me:

"if the owners fail to communicate it will have been for nothing. so quite frankly. im not spending much time helping until they start to help themselves."

It makes perfect sense. One thing I realized (since I joined late 2016/early 2017) is that no matter how hard we elaborate and give some thoughts over a subject: it won't mean a tiny bit if those responsibles to carry on with it can't even give themselves the time and effort to give you a thumbs up, at least for trying.
See how different this looks from just having "owners to come here and say the exact same thing we've been telling for months"? It's not solely about the message but trust, exchange, leaving your goddamn comfort zone and expose yourself to those who still have the consideration to log on daily and, hell, even vote for this server. That's why electing a Community Manager or a Players Council will do absolutely nothing if wr can't have commitment from the upper level, otherwise they'll unban former cheaters/toxic players, change core mechanics at free will and so much on.

This server will only make through December if those who are still playing keep having fun + older players find it attractive again, what's been clearly not happening for the past updates decisions.
To who pointed out this is a Minecraft issue: nope, there's a difference between a game losing popularity to sink down. GTA, Hypixel and potterworld surely declined in its former player base, the difference is that still absolutely fun to play. There's also new things (suggested and discussed within the community), plenty of events, all of it keeping up with MCs evolution. The only bad thing here is sticking with an outdated client where tons of resources are just misused (like 18 melee weapons where only one matters).

But, as I said earlier, none of this will matter if there's dialogue between players and the higher staff. Until there I'll be sticking to those servers who won't take us for granted.
(sry for any typos, late here and I'm in mobile)

 

[Draw4]

I really agree with @Katitude idea of community manager. I don’t believe Community Manager shouldn’t be issuing in-game punishments or promotions. But their opinion should be considered if it’s on appeals with the staff member who issued punishment.

Thing on toxicity, I know being toxic is frowned upon but, I think banter isn’t really toxic just a game, people like to brag. But if it’s getting to point wheres like F off etc.., and its becomes personal I think, that’s would be toxic because theirs no reason to be rude on personal level. You died in video game, or you just dislike this person, don’t say anything, just to hurt others. Forums more just don’t be a prick towards others opinions. Leave your opinion and be respectful on someone’s point of view. You can’t have someone see your point of view if you’re just leaving negative comments. They won’t listen to anything you say anymore.

 

[Katitude]

Forums more just don’t be a prick towards others opinions. Leave your opinion and be respectful on someone’s point of view. You can’t have someone see your point of view if you’re just leaving negative comments. They won’t listen to anything you say anymore.

Thing on toxicity, I know being toxic is frowned upon but, I think banter isn’t really toxic just a game, people like to brag. But if it’s getting to point wheres like F off etc.., and its becomes personal I think, that’s would be toxic because theirs no reason to be rude on personal level.

I agree with this 100%, silly as it may be.

 

[Draw4]

I agree with this 100%, silly as it may be.

nvm I disagree with everything kat says now she called me “SILLY”!

 

[Katitude]

nvm I disagree with everything kat says now she called me “SILLY”!

 

[Cat_Squirrel_Inc]

mlep.