Juggernaut is ridiculously overpowered

[Pixel_Finn]

I understand games may want players to feel rewarded for sticking with the game and/or paying irl money for access to higher tier gear. What I do not understand is the absolute advantage a juggernaut player has. Not only against a starter player or a mid-tier which is understandable, but against high level players without it.
For example, I was looting the Sanctuary just a short while ago. Full riot armor, all tier 4 guns (AK47, Barret 50, Spas, etc). Another player was looting as well and so I stealthily prepared an ambush in the corner of a room.
As the enemy entered, clad in full juggernaut armour (which should be only one level higher than riot, the only armor you can get out in the game world). I immediately unleashed an entire magazine of my AK47 into him before he could react. He jumped up as I kept my recticle on-target until I had run out of ammo. 40 ROUNDS of TIER 4 AK47 bullets into him.
He jumped as I switched to a Barret .50 and again fired directly at him and hit. Before I could get another round off he hit me twice with a Katana and I died. It's ridiculous and I am very angry that I spent hours gaining high level material, armor and weapons only for a player with armor one level ahead of mine to be essentially invulnerable to me. Juggernaut should be the highest tier, it should be powerful, it should be valuable. It should NOT be able to withstand 40 AK bullets and a Barret round on-target from close range.
My absence from the server wouldn't change much of course, but I really question the sanity of the mods who think that giving a few players who can afford OP gear power to absolutely demolish everyone else is a good idea. What is the point of playing this game if even with stealth advantage, first shots, close range, and the highest obtainable weapons you're cut down within seconds by an unstoppable jugg use . You need monetization for your server, understandable. But I am very confident in calling this server PAY TO WIN.

 

[hypertonicc]

Eh, I don't agree about your belief in the pay to win part as there's ways you can get Legendary items- such as voting which gives you extra rewards like crates and supply drops- as well as playing and leveling up, every five levels you do get a reward. But yeah- juggernaut armor at the moment does seem a bit overpowered, any person with a lot bandages and juggernaut can easily run away from a large outnumber- which in my opinion shouldn't be the case. I think that if you're riot you should have a good chance of killing a juggernaut but not as great if you were to be attacking with Legendary weapons and in full jugg.

 

[Runkelpokk]

i need to agree jugg is crazy op and if you use syringes its even stronger (maybe the resistance should be removed from them )

 

[hypertonicc]

i need to agree jugg is crazy op and if you use syringes its even stronger (maybe the resistance should be removed from them )

Yes, guns do a lot of damage to riot but almost none at all to juggs.

 

[FalseHorseVczi]

I understand games may want players to feel rewarded for sticking with the game and/or paying irl money for access to higher tier gear. What I do not understand is the absolute advantage a juggernaut player has. Not only against a starter player or a mid-tier which is understandable, but against high level players without it.
For example, I was looting the Sanctuary just a short while ago. Full riot armor, all tier 4 guns (AK47, Barret 50, Spas, etc). Another player was looting as well and so I stealthily prepared an ambush in the corner of a room.
As the enemy entered, clad in full juggernaut armour (which should be only one level higher than riot, the only armor you can get out in the game world). I immediately unleashed an entire magazine of my AK47 into him before he could react. He jumped up as I kept my recticle on-target until I had run out of ammo. 40 ROUNDS of TIER 4 AK47 bullets into him.
He jumped as I switched to a Barret .50 and again fired directly at him and hit. Before I could get another round off he hit me twice with a Katana and I died. It's ridiculous and I am very angry that I spent hours gaining high level material, armor and weapons only for a player with armor one level ahead of mine to be essentially invulnerable to me. Juggernaut should be the highest tier, it should be powerful, it should be valuable. It should NOT be able to withstand 40 AK bullets and a Barret round on-target from close range.
My absence from the server wouldn't change much of course, but I really question the sanity of the mods who think that giving a few players who can afford OP gear power to absolutely demolish everyone else is a good idea. What is the point of playing this game if even with stealth advantage, first shots, close range, and the highest obtainable weapons you're cut down within seconds by an unstoppable jugg use . You need monetization for your server, understandable. But I am very confident in calling this server PAY TO WIN.

This sounds like a mix of toxicity and little to none skill.

 

[mindblaster007]

Let's all be honest, Jugg is and always has been over-powered. The only thing that hasn't been done to balance Jugg so far is to make it lootable in bags. I think the only solution is to make it have a one to five percent chance to be looted in Tier 4 Loot Zones. This will allow others to come across it and when people get it the playing ground will be level. I've been playing Havoc since late 2014 and this has been recommended by many throughout the years but this has never been implemented. I personally think this is at least worth a shot to try and balance Jugg out.

 

[FalseHorseVczi]

Let's all be honest, Jugg is and always has been over-powered. The only thing that hasn't been done to balance Jugg so far is to make it lootable in bags. I think the only solution is to make it have a one to five percent chance to be looted in Tier 4 Loot Zones. This will allow others to come across it and when people get it the playing ground will be level. I've been playing Havoc since late 2014 and this has been recommended by many throughout the years but this has never been implemented. I personally think this is at least worth a shot to try and balance Jugg out.

Jugg being lootable is great, I believe that at one point it actually was. (May have been on tmd classic/op. I dont quite remember) It was very balanced and made it more enjoyable.

 

[mindblaster007]

Jugg being lootable is great, I believe that at one point it actually was. (May have been on tmd classic/op. I dont quite remember) It was very balanced and made it more enjoyable.

TMDOP I believe it was, and yeah, I think this route is the best way to go and will balance it as much as possible.

 

[FalseHorseVczi]

TMDOP I believe it was, and yeah, I think this route is the best way to go and will balance it as much as possible.

Although, With the way jugg was lootable in tmdop you could clear atlanta and walk out with like 7 sets, So the rarity would need to be increased alot.

 

[mindblaster007]

Although, With the way jugg was lootable in tmdop you could clear atlanta and walk out with like 7 sets, So the rarity would need to be increased alot.

Well, it was called TMDOP for a reason lol. Like I said above I would predict it would be in between one and five percent.

 

[xHobbes]

I wouldn’t be upset if it was removed entirely. It’s sort of like Infinite Money, where it doesn’t have a place in the game, but since it’s already been in the game for so long it’s hard to get rid of. An armor set thats more powerful then anything you can find in the overworld is definitely pay to win. You can rarely find them in Voting Crates, but not consistently enough for it to be a viable alternative. Being able to find jugg in the overworld rarely also isn’t a good alternative either, it would just make it worse. The problem isn’t that it’s rare, it’s because it is so overpowered. It would be better if it’s drop rate from cases were nerfed to the point were it is like a 5% chance to get a single piece from Legendary Crate.

Legendary Weapons don’t suffer from as many problems, since they’re mostly niche, hard-to-use weapons. You’ll do good if you know how to use them properly, but if you are bad with them you’ll end up losing a lot of money. They also aren’t so much better than their downgraded variants that they’re obsolete in a battle between the two. Jugg is so much better than Riot, that if there is a 1v1 between the two with equal weapons and skill, the Jugg player will win almost every time. Even if the Riot player has an advantage in weaponry and skill, it’s unlikely they will win, unless the Juggernaut is AFK or just completely retarded.

The game would be considerably better if it was either removed or the drop rates were nerfed to ****. It will probably get nerfed at some point, in meantime it’s better to just avoid Juggs when you see them.

 

[_kingofkinz_]

I understand games may want players to feel rewarded for sticking with the game and/or paying irl money for access to higher tier gear. What I do not understand is the absolute advantage a juggernaut player has. Not only against a starter player or a mid-tier which is understandable, but against high level players without it.
For example, I was looting the Sanctuary just a short while ago. Full riot armor, all tier 4 guns (AK47, Barret 50, Spas, etc). Another player was looting as well and so I stealthily prepared an ambush in the corner of a room.
As the enemy entered, clad in full juggernaut armour (which should be only one level higher than riot, the only armor you can get out in the game world). I immediately unleashed an entire magazine of my AK47 into him before he could react. He jumped up as I kept my recticle on-target until I had run out of ammo. 40 ROUNDS of TIER 4 AK47 bullets into him.
He jumped as I switched to a Barret .50 and again fired directly at him and hit. Before I could get another round off he hit me twice with a Katana and I died. It's ridiculous and I am very angry that I spent hours gaining high level material, armor and weapons only for a player with armor one level ahead of mine to be essentially invulnerable to me. Juggernaut should be the highest tier, it should be powerful, it should be valuable. It should NOT be able to withstand 40 AK bullets and a Barret round on-target from close range.
My absence from the server wouldn't change much of course, but I really question the sanity of the mods who think that giving a few players who can afford OP gear power to absolutely demolish everyone else is a good idea. What is the point of playing this game if even with stealth advantage, first shots, close range, and the highest obtainable weapons you're cut down within seconds by an unstoppable jugg use . You need monetization for your server, understandable. But I am very confident in calling this server PAY TO WIN.

Im willing to give you a full set of jug to test things further or just to use if you want

 

[FalseHorseVczi]

You all would have to understand how this would effect the economy aswell, Alot of the economy is jugg now.

 

[Runkelpokk]

Without jugg there would be no real endgame pvp cause riot is worthless and if jugg would be lootable it would become worthless too

 

[mindblaster007]

Without jugg there would be no real endgame pvp cause riot is worthless and if jugg would be lootable it would become worthless too

Wrong, if it's only 1% that's the same percent as getting mythical out of a legendary crate. Plus, it would take even longer to get a full set, they are most likely to get the same piece twice.

You all would have to understand how this would effect the economy aswell, Alot of the economy is jugg now.

The economy was always just Jugg and legendary items.

 

[Runkelpokk]

Wrong, if it's only 1% that's the same percent as getting mythical out of a legendary crate. Plus, it would take even longer to get a full set, they are most likely to get the same piece twice.

The economy was always just Jugg and legendary items.

you get a full set for around 100k what is nothing compared to 2017 with voting even more jugg got into the game but i would still say that crates overall need a buff cause you get too much crap from legend crates

 

[mindblaster007]

you get a full set for around 100k what is nothing compared to 2017 with voting even more jugg got into the game but i would still say that crates overall need a buff cause you get too much crap from legend crates

The cheapest you can pay for a complete set of Jugg as of this second is $250,000 if you were to buy the cheapest pieces. Allowing Jugg to be lootable in only military crates in T4 loot zones at a 1% chance of getting piece isn't overpowered at all. With those odds, you have a higher chance to find mythical in a legendary crate. This is the only solution that hasn't even been considered and tried out. They've been tampering with nerfing and buffing Jugg without having it perfectly balanced.

 

[FalseHorseVczi]

Wrong, if it's only 1% that's the same percent as getting mythical out of a legendary crate. Plus, it would take even longer to get a full set, they are most likely to get the same piece twice.

The economy was always just Jugg and legendary items.

But if jugg became more common and lootable, It would decrease value alot.

 

[Runkelpokk]

if jugg would be sellable to npc's for like 25k a min value would be kept

 

[xHobbes]

Wrong, if it's only 1% that's the same percent as getting mythical out of a legendary crate. Plus, it would take even longer to get a full set, they are most likely to get the same piece twice.

I usually fully support paywalls being taken down, since you get such a huge advantage if you pay money on this server, but in this circumstance, it needs to exist or it would legitimately ruin the server. If you go in game and press tab, you’ll see about 5-20 ranked players, and a ton of unranked. Most of the jugg generated is from the top 5%, while everyone else has to source it from them, whether it be from killing them or buying it from them. Its how the economy functions. A new, free source of jugg will break this relationship, and crash the economy. It will most likely never recover. It would also kill the value of most guns and lower tier armor.

Also, gameplay wise, Jugg will be way more common than it is now. Riot Players will not survive for long. It will cause players without much jugg to get discouraged, and eventually leave. Like mentioned earlier, most guns would lose effectiveness, make the katana one of the only viable strategies.

If jugg armor was nerfed to only be slightly better than riot (which it should be), I would fully support this idea. But until that happens, it’s better that it doesn’t become lootable.