OGs are cool and all...

[Challenge_]

... but we seem to forget how people get here in the first place. Players don't usually come in gung-ho ready to spam pains and double barrett combo. They come here expecting a zombie apocalypse where survival is a struggle. If people don't actively RP with friends or competitively pvp, theres nothing more for them to do. As shown in the evidence in the picture I posted, new players that aren't ready to competitively pvp don't know what else there is to do. Right after we had this conversation, HardcoreGary logged off.

We need to work on NEW player retention, not just OG retention.

I will state yet again that the pvp meta is a huge part of TMD and I wont deny that. But its getting so competitive that even the good players are hacking to get an advantage, making OG numbers decrease. And these are the people pushing the pvp-centered updates, which means new players aren't sticking around. The new players don't have a voice, and we shouldn't expect them to right out of the gate. But we can't forget them. Please give us a harder style of survival where zombies aren't pushovers and even an Mp5 has value.

 

[Challenge_]

@Kyritic I plead that you please press this to higher-ups.

 

[ItzMiguel7u7]

I very much agree with you @ChlngeAccepted .
I've seen enough of that, from my own experience, that they spend an entire afternoon looting and killing zombies to get their stuff and I ended up killing them and they ended up logging off for the sake of being killed and losing everything...

 

[ItzMiguel7u7]

But I'm still very fascinated by the "pvp meta", as you say and the pvp is very important, very significant for many and for me.
so I do not know how it would be a solution for everyone to win

 

[Challenge_]

But I'm still very fascinated by the "pvp meta", as you say and the pvp is very important, very significant for many and for me.
so I do not know how it would be a solution for everyone to win

2 separate servers. I’ve preached this in the past. We need TMDH for Hardcore and TMDOP for pvp.

 

[seuboi]

I've been saying this a lot lately, but the truth is we've got plenty of gimmicks for no real purpose. We are still stuck at 1.8 and limited to a certain number of items, why should we have like 15 different melee weapons if they have no use when you find a katana? So, make it like one rusty low dmg knife and a good one, period.
We have been long ignoring Minecraft main selling point: CRAFTING.

Weapon accessories are pure cosmetics, I don't see anyone putting a scope in a steir aug. Why do we even have red dot sights if it does not help us in aiming or accuracy?
I think people would be a lot happier if we had like half of the stuff we've got now, but instead, we had reasons to use them. Smg's and pistols for walking speed and accuracy, rifles for precision and power, shotguns for overwhelming close encounters, snipers for zero mobility but deadly piercing shots.
Maybe we'd need to maintain our gears since they're basically left overs from the post apocalyptic world? Fix and improve our own weapons, find fuel and/or vehicles upgrades, use low tier weapons to salvage useful parts for building better stuff, make us hunt for food, cook them. The water is contamined, no one drinks from an old sink or from the river lmao, make us go back to a safezone to boil it or we'll die.

There is so much fun out there, it's a matter of time until everyone gets bored to what it was before.

 

[Kendrq]

We need to work on NEW player retention, not just OG retention.

You're completely correct in this sentiment.

2 separate servers. I’ve preached this in the past. We need TMDH for Hardcore and TMDOP for pvp.

We have been long ignoring Minecraft main selling point: CRAFTING.

Y'all have some really good ideas here that I'd honestly love to see put into action to some degree or another. The owners and devs are working on some projects at the moment, but I'll be forwarding this thread to them to see how they feel about it for future works.

 

[MaximusOctavius]

Y'all have some really good ideas here that I'd honestly love to see put into action to some degree or another. The owners and devs are working on some projects at the moment, but I'll be forwarding this thread to them to see how they feel about it for future works.

This is all true. We are busy at the moment, but once everything has quieted down, we might start working on something like that. At the moment, we might just try to make TMDC better.

 

[_Nickk]

Please take the time to read this, and at least glance over the google docs. It's long.

There is a massive problem, and it's been going on for years. If we try to cater to new players, all the OGs absolutely hate it. They stop donating and 90% of server revenue disappears, and we operate at a huge loss. When we cater to OGs like we are now, new players get pushed away. We've tried doing both for months, and we've been losing players regardless. When we nerf pains and balance stuff, all the OGs get upset and player count dips a lot. When we keep it how it is, player count continues to dwindle anyways because new players don't stay.

In my opinion, the current fighting style has gotten too advanced for new players to even have a chance, so we need a massive change in meta, but that will cause a ton of our current players to quit. It's a lose-lose situation that's been going on for years. This problem is exasperated by unlimited money, since we can't balance the economy or do anything like that while people have infinite, but we also can't take it away from them when they've spent tons of money to get it. I also think the additional ways of getting crates and Mythical rank have both made it so Jugg isn't rare enough, which makes riot not viable.

I drafted up an idea for a Mining Dead 2.0, but I don't even know if either group would like it. If anybody wants to read and give suggestions, here's the google doc. It would be like normal Mining Dead, but you would have a base with survivors. When you upgraded it, you would be producing a ton of money and resources. There would be a lot more grinding, which means a lot more game play elements, instead of just getting unlimited money and going from there. The building mechanics and what not would take quite a while to code, so I'm weary, because putting tons of effort into a new thing hasn't worked great in the past (Mine Wars). But if the server keeps going like it has been, I don't think it will magically turn around. I don't want to spend hundreds of hours on it, and then have it not move the needle, if not hurt the problem even more.

I want the server to thrive and get back up to its former glory, but I don't know how. I don't think Mining Dead is a viable game mode for a big player base in its current state, but if we make meta changes, we'll have to spend a lot on advertising, we'll definitely be losing money for a few months, and even then it may not even end up working. I might try going the route of a lot of other servers and put effort into Map Maker (Creative) and Horizons (Skyblock) in order to attract a wider target audience, as many people looking to just play Minecraft, and not something different entirely, currently have no reason to play. Even if this was successful, it's a different playerbase anyways, and the only similarity is the network name. I'm really out of ideas for Mining Dead. I think for a long term prosperous gamemode, the meta needs be redone, unlimited money needs to be removed, and we need to add some sort of farming element. If we do that right now, we'll lose what we have left of the playerbase. If we don't, there's no reason the player count will randomly trend back upwards.

 

[Challenge_]

Please take the time to read this, and at least glance over the google docs. It's long (cont.)

I think the idea is great. Its something that has potential. But the part that scares me is that it isn't grassroots TMD. I think there's a far simpler way to go about this.

I think what you've said is 100% correct. The meta is too advanced for new players. But the problem isn't that you've done a bad job for gameplay updates. The EULA update was great for survivors and the most recent was great for OGs. The problem is you're forcing the 2 systems to live together. The framework is already there. We have TMDC, TMDPVP, and TMDPVE. They just need polished to be more tailored to the players that would be on it.

TMDC - From the point of view of

[I was in the middle of typing my reasoning for this … but saw a message on discord that shows my point has already gotten through.

God bless.]

 

[CravenPython108]

Please take the time to read this, and at least glance over the google docs. It's long.

There is a massive problem, and it's been going on for years. If we try to cater to new players, all the OGs absolutely hate it. They stop donating and 90% of server revenue disappears, and we operate at a huge loss. When we cater to OGs like we are now, new players get pushed away. We've tried doing both for months, and we've been losing players regardless. When we nerf pains and balance stuff, all the OGs get upset and player count dips a lot. When we keep it how it is, player count continues to dwindle anyways because new players don't stay.

In my opinion, the current fighting style has gotten too advanced for new players to even have a chance, so we need a massive change in meta, but that will cause a ton of our current players to quit. It's a lose-lose situation that's been going on for years. This problem is exasperated by unlimited money, since we can't balance the economy or do anything like that while people have infinite, but we also can't take it away from them when they've spent tons of money to get it. I also think the additional ways of getting crates and Mythical rank have both made it so Jugg isn't rare enough, which makes riot not viable.

I drafted up an idea for a Mining Dead 2.0, but I don't even know if either group would like it. If anybody wants to read and give suggestions, here's the google doc. It would be like normal Mining Dead, but you would have a base with survivors. When you upgraded it, you would be producing a ton of money and resources. There would be a lot more grinding, which means a lot more game play elements, instead of just getting unlimited money and going from there. The building mechanics and what not would take quite a while to code, so I'm weary, because putting tons of effort into a new thing hasn't worked great in the past (Mine Wars). But if the server keeps going like it has been, I don't think it will magically turn around. I don't want to spend hundreds of hours on it, and then have it not move the needle, if not hurt the problem even more.

I want the server to thrive and get back up to its former glory, but I don't know how. I don't think Mining Dead is a viable game mode for a big player base in its current state, but if we make meta changes, we'll have to spend a lot on advertising, we'll definitely be losing money for a few months, and even then it may not even end up working. I might try going the route of a lot of other servers and put effort into Map Maker (Creative) and Horizons (Skyblock) in order to attract a wider target audience, as many people looking to just play Minecraft, and not something different entirely, currently have no reason to play. Even if this was successful, it's a different playerbase anyways, and the only similarity is the network name. I'm really out of ideas for Mining Dead. I think for a long term prosperous gamemode, the meta needs be redone, unlimited money needs to be removed, and we need to add some sort of farming element. If we do that right now, we'll lose what we have left of the playerbase. If we don't, there's no reason the player count will randomly trend back upwards.

You could try focusing on MW.

 

[seuboi]

Please take the time to read this, and at least glance over the google docs. It's long.

There is a massive problem, and it's been going on for years. If we try to cater to new players, all the OGs absolutely hate it. They stop donating and 90% of server revenue disappears, and we operate at a huge loss. When we cater to OGs like we are now, new players get pushed away. We've tried doing both for months, and we've been losing players regardless. When we nerf pains and balance stuff, all the OGs get upset and player count dips a lot. When we keep it how it is, player count continues to dwindle anyways because new players don't stay.

In my opinion, the current fighting style has gotten too advanced for new players to even have a chance, so we need a massive change in meta, but that will cause a ton of our current players to quit. It's a lose-lose situation that's been going on for years. This problem is exasperated by unlimited money, since we can't balance the economy or do anything like that while people have infinite, but we also can't take it away from them when they've spent tons of money to get it. I also think the additional ways of getting crates and Mythical rank have both made it so Jugg isn't rare enough, which makes riot not viable.

I drafted up an idea for a Mining Dead 2.0, but I don't even know if either group would like it. If anybody wants to read and give suggestions, here's the google doc. It would be like normal Mining Dead, but you would have a base with survivors. When you upgraded it, you would be producing a ton of money and resources. There would be a lot more grinding, which means a lot more game play elements, instead of just getting unlimited money and going from there. The building mechanics and what not would take quite a while to code, so I'm weary, because putting tons of effort into a new thing hasn't worked great in the past (Mine Wars). But if the server keeps going like it has been, I don't think it will magically turn around. I don't want to spend hundreds of hours on it, and then have it not move the needle, if not hurt the problem even more.

I want the server to thrive and get back up to its former glory, but I don't know how. I don't think Mining Dead is a viable game mode for a big player base in its current state, but if we make meta changes, we'll have to spend a lot on advertising, we'll definitely be losing money for a few months, and even then it may not even end up working. I might try going the route of a lot of other servers and put effort into Map Maker (Creative) and Horizons (Skyblock) in order to attract a wider target audience, as many people looking to just play Minecraft, and not something different entirely, currently have no reason to play. Even if this was successful, it's a different playerbase anyways, and the only similarity is the network name. I'm really out of ideas for Mining Dead. I think for a long term prosperous gamemode, the meta needs be redone, unlimited money needs to be removed, and we need to add some sort of farming element. If we do that right now, we'll lose what we have left of the playerbase. If we don't, there's no reason the player count will randomly trend back upwards.

Nice to share these toughts here, Nick.
I have never been a real fan of mining/skyblocking sort of, but the TWD elements may converge to some interesting survival crafting.

I agree that there's no way to have a functional economy when we have infinite money, it's just impossible, regular shop items get inflated in just a couple of days. This was something that pissed me off a lot since the second wipe, cause there was actually no need at all to do that. Mythical/titans/inf. will still have endless resources to bash other players.
You're right about not committing to more work if we're in a lose-lose scenario, but maybe things can get better with Challenge's option: make them separate worlds. Let the pvp become the arcade-minigame that has always been but let the pve become a real survival game. No infinites, no easy way out (tp everywhere, everytime), no tons of supplies available. I don't think that it would need a complete revamp like your TWD 2.0 idea, but just inserting some elements would add so much depht to it. Last time this server had that was when we did not have this legendaries loot party and when we had to actually loot car parts and find their respawns, which were very limited. They had work value, they had usefulness. Everything was tossed out overnight, when suddenly cars/bikes were as rare as a carrot, and then mythical ranks, with even more overpowering perks.

 

[Tactical_Fox48]

Please take the time to read this, and at least glance over the google docs. It's long.

There is a massive problem, and it's been going on for years. If we try to cater to new players, all the OGs absolutely hate it. They stop donating and 90% of server revenue disappears, and we operate at a huge loss. When we cater to OGs like we are now, new players get pushed away. We've tried doing both for months, and we've been losing players regardless. When we nerf pains and balance stuff, all the OGs get upset and player count dips a lot. When we keep it how it is, player count continues to dwindle anyways because new players don't stay.

In my opinion, the current fighting style has gotten too advanced for new players to even have a chance, so we need a massive change in meta, but that will cause a ton of our current players to quit. It's a lose-lose situation that's been going on for years. This problem is exasperated by unlimited money, since we can't balance the economy or do anything like that while people have infinite, but we also can't take it away from them when they've spent tons of money to get it. I also think the additional ways of getting crates and Mythical rank have both made it so Jugg isn't rare enough, which makes riot not viable.

I've noticed the same thing, and the link in my signature gives my previous suggestions on how to maybe increase the playerbase.

Long story short, make a game mode that's short and concise; spawn, shoot, win. Just something like a balanced team deathmatch would do, in my opinion, seeing as OGs would have their PvP and new players would know exactly what they were getting into. Basically a Cops v Crims, but it's factions from TWD, and as an added bonus, players of all skill levels would be able to practice PvP without having to worry about losing their inventory.

To be clear, NOT another HellNight, just a small Skirmish.

 

[Rattler_]

Honestly every comment posted in this forum has been great, and hopefully some of these can be put to use.

 

[Cat_Squirrel_Inc]

I agree with changes to MM and HH. Now, I think HH is fine as is rn-- no need to reset all the islands and stuff, but definitely fix bug issues and selling speed (there should be a /sell all option or something). MM is amazing rn, so glad it was brought back! Definitely use MM for contests etc, and maybe we'll have some really neat stuff! I have an idea for seasonal events--> make presets of all the SZs, and then the challenge is to decorate them according to the seasonal theme, and whoever wins, gets their SZ showcased as a mini "map update" thingy. Idk, just an idea

 

[Shadowhab]

I personally think that the devs should update to 1.9 or higher. It allows for many more options in game. Also, the melee weapons should all do the same amount of damage, but just have different abilities, like the bat could be knockback and the fireaxe could chop off peoples limbs or something. Just a thought

 

[scubadiverkitty1]

I think the idea is great. Its something that has potential. But the part that scares me is that it isn't grassroots TMD. I think there's a far simpler way to go about this.

I think what you've said is 100% correct. The meta is too advanced for new players. But the problem isn't that you've done a bad job for gameplay updates. The EULA update was great for survivors and the most recent was great for OGs. The problem is you're forcing the 2 systems to live together. The framework is already there. We have TMDC, TMDPVP, and TMDPVE. They just need polished to be more tailored to the players that would be on it.

TMDC - From the point of view of

[I was in the middle of typing my reasoning for this … but saw a message on discord that shows my point has already gotten through.

God bless.]

I think that is what TMD needs but idk if you know this but people want one gamemode so they have players to kill. Ogs don't just want to fight with each other, they want to spam kill starters so they feel better about themselves. If they made another gamemode TMD-OP would just have ogs

 

[SummonersJhift]

Why are we even fighting? Let's just keep pushing with the server, we are on the rise, let's keep it that way.

 

[seuboi]

Why are we even fighting? Let's just keep pushing with the server, we are on the rise, let's keep it that way.

No one here is fighting, we've been trying to find some logical explanations on why the server is what it is and what could it become. Minecraft has always been updated with plenty of servers following behind, the old logic of 'appeal to the ogs' was a clear mistake and going back and forth to these endless tweaking will not achieve anything besides catering only one side of it's playerbase.
That's why we need an urgent division so both of them can follow their own path, with their own rules, with their own players.
Pvp and pve are never going to prevail while sharing the same world.

 

[ThunderDragon3]

Please take the time to read this, and at least glance over the google docs. It's long.

There is a massive problem, and it's been going on for years. If we try to cater to new players, all the OGs absolutely hate it. They stop donating and 90% of server revenue disappears, and we operate at a huge loss. When we cater to OGs like we are now, new players get pushed away. We've tried doing both for months, and we've been losing players regardless. When we nerf pains and balance stuff, all the OGs get upset and player count dips a lot. When we keep it how it is, player count continues to dwindle anyways because new players don't stay.

In my opinion, the current fighting style has gotten too advanced for new players to even have a chance, so we need a massive change in meta, but that will cause a ton of our current players to quit. It's a lose-lose situation that's been going on for years. This problem is exasperated by unlimited money, since we can't balance the economy or do anything like that while people have infinite, but we also can't take it away from them when they've spent tons of money to get it. I also think the additional ways of getting crates and Mythical rank have both made it so Jugg isn't rare enough, which makes riot not viable.

I drafted up an idea for a Mining Dead 2.0, but I don't even know if either group would like it. If anybody wants to read and give suggestions, here's the google doc. It would be like normal Mining Dead, but you would have a base with survivors. When you upgraded it, you would be producing a ton of money and resources. There would be a lot more grinding, which means a lot more game play elements, instead of just getting unlimited money and going from there. The building mechanics and what not would take quite a while to code, so I'm weary, because putting tons of effort into a new thing hasn't worked great in the past (Mine Wars). But if the server keeps going like it has been, I don't think it will magically turn around. I don't want to spend hundreds of hours on it, and then have it not move the needle, if not hurt the problem even more.

I want the server to thrive and get back up to its former glory, but I don't know how. I don't think Mining Dead is a viable game mode for a big player base in its current state, but if we make meta changes, we'll have to spend a lot on advertising, we'll definitely be losing money for a few months, and even then it may not even end up working. I might try going the route of a lot of other servers and put effort into Map Maker (Creative) and Horizons (Skyblock) in order to attract a wider target audience, as many people looking to just play Minecraft, and not something different entirely, currently have no reason to play. Even if this was successful, it's a different playerbase anyways, and the only similarity is the network name. I'm really out of ideas for Mining Dead. I think for a long term prosperous gamemode, the meta needs be redone, unlimited money needs to be removed, and we need to add some sort of farming element. If we do that right now, we'll lose what we have left of the playerbase. If we don't, there's no reason the player count will randomly trend back upwards.

That would be great. I've never really thought about it that way, but if someone is paying attention to what he's saying, this could open up a lot of doors for our future, and many would result in us becoming a bigger and better community, done right. Amen!