What are curse words really?

[Pogonip]

earlier today i was muted for supposedly verbally abusing a staff member now i know i would never be stupid enough to "verbally abuse a staff member".Now the reason all this stuff started was cause i was having a conversation with my friends.We are really cool friends we make fun of each other and stuff no one gets mad at the other person.So during the conversation i used this word exactly "effing" yea you saw it effing. So what happens pogo gets warned. for a word most kids shows use not saying i watch kids shows but i heard that word in kids shows so why not i said. So I get mad cause like why shouldn't I and I wanna talk to the helper which was WobbleyTaco and he/she (i don't wanna assume gender) says they are tired and don't wanna talk right now and that i can message them in the morning on the forums. I mean it is their job to help me i mean the prefix helper isn't there for nothing again i get the same stuff. So i got around in chat saying that i got warned for nothing and stuff. Sadly i don't have the screenshots and they don't say anything to me like stop it please or i will have to mute you no what they did was directly mute me for 1hr the reason was "verbally abusing" i was like fine no problem its nothing. So i try to get a message out to the people to help them by telling them not to use certain words or they will be muted or warned i didn't use the words in chat but either way i was muted. Now i try to get people to know i was muted so they don't message me or ask for me cause i was muted what better way to do this then using a friend so i tell my friend to say things in chat from me and he does now don't think i told him to verbally abuse the helper no i told him just not to talk to me cause i was muted for no reason and he didn't say that from himself but they were my words and they had nothing wrong in them. So WobbleyTaco says to him "id appreciate if you didn't do that, or else a mute will follow for you too". Now i don't know what TheShadow74 did wrong but supposedly he deserved a mute thank god he didn't get one but one more word from me and he would have. Either way my point here is to tell people some words aren't curse words don't think we are filter bypassing if we say them. And my other point is if you are so tired please just get some rest don't take out your grumpiness out on us please. I don't mean to offend anyone in this so don't be offended.

 

[UnknownMelody]

Hi Pogonip,
Thank you for expressing your concerns. To reply to your main question, I don't consider "effing" to be a swear word. However, it is considered a form of filter bypass. As defined in the rules, filter bypass includes any means of bypassing the swear filter plugin. While you didn't directly say the intended word, you said a word directly linked to the intended swear word. By doing this, you bypassed the swear filter and therefore broke the rule. Just to clear up any misconception, you may say direct swear words (as long as it isn't excessive) and not receive a punishment as the swear filter will block it out. However, the context may not be disrespectful or you will receive a punishment. I hope this is a good and understandable explanation of that offence/rule in this situation.

While I agree that it would have been helpful if Wobbley had explained this to you at the time, you must understand that staff members are human too and we get tired when we work hard or it is nearing our usual sleep time. That's the way our body clock works and just because we are staff members, we shouldn't be thought of any different. Wobbley did suggest that you message him on the forums and that he would reply at his next availability.

Regarding your mute, your reason behind this hasn't been explained so I'll ask Wobbley about it and see if he has any screenshots. In the meantime, if you have any please feel free to send them to me and I'll check them out. Regarding your friend, talking for someone who is muted is a form of mute bypass and as your friend was an accomplice to you bypassing your mute, it is true that he could have gotten punished for it. I'm glad to hear that this wasn't continued and he didn't get punished, but this is exactly why it pays to know the rules. c:

I'm not sure if your intent was to report this staff member or to warn players not to swear, but either way I hope I helped clear up the situation. If you'd like to discuss it more, feel free to message me. Just for future reference, if you'd like to report a staff member please do so by using the support tab at the top of the page. That eliminates any chance that we will miss the report and we'll definitely be able to handle it. Thanks again. c:

 

[Nekophysix]

Hi Pogonip,
Thank you for expressing your concerns. To reply to your main question, I don't consider "effing" to be a swear word. However, it is considered a form of filter bypass. As defined in the rules, filter bypass includes any means of bypassing the swear filter plugin. While you didn't directly say the intended word, you said a word directly linked to the intended swear word. By doing this, you bypassed the swear filter and therefore broke the rule. Just to clear up any misconception, you may say direct swear words (as long as it isn't excessive) and not receive a punishment as the swear filter will block it out. However, the context may not be disrespectful or you will receive a punishment. I hope this is a good and understandable explanation of that offence/rule in this situation.

While I agree that it would have been helpful if Wobbley had explained this to you at the time, you must understand that staff members are human too and we get tired when we work hard or it is nearing our usual sleep time. That's the way our body clock works and just because we are staff members, we shouldn't be thought of any different. Wobbley did suggest that you message him on the forums and that he would reply at his next availability.

Regarding your mute, your reason behind this hasn't been explained so I'll ask Wobbley about it and see if he has any screenshots. In the meantime, if you have any please feel free to send them to me and I'll check them out. Regarding your friend, talking for someone who is muted is a form of mute bypass and as your friend was an accomplice to you bypassing your mute, it is true that he could have gotten punished for it. I'm glad to hear that this wasn't continued and he didn't get punished, but this is exactly why it pays to know the rules. c:

I'm not sure if your intent was to report this staff member or to warn players not to swear, but either way I hope I helped clear up the situation. If you'd like to discuss it more, feel free to message me. Just for future reference, if you'd like to report a staff member please do so by using the support tab at the top of the page. That eliminates any chance that we will miss the report and we'll definitely be able to handle it. Thanks again. c:

While on the topic of cursing and verbal abuse, I would like to know why are words like "Kys" are immediate warning even when both players are simply messing around and causing no harm to anyone especially when the pretext was a simple joke and all parties involved were joking, laughing and generally having a good time.

It's instances like this where people become fearful of staff thinking that they too might get warned for having a joke. After the warning, the joke was killed and no one was having fun for the remainder that the staff was on. In fact, a once lively chat was reduced to a few sentences per minute because of that warning. I believe that warns should be more carefully considered with the pretext included and not given out just at the mention of a word.

Also, I am not sure if it's intentional but I am noticing more posts and replies from staff on the forum. So good job on increasing player outreach and participating. I hope it continues like this.

 

[SummonersJhift]

Definitely seen as bypass, that may be why. It's not the fact that you said it, it's the fact that it is a bypass of the filter

 

[Al_Cool]

About the topic, ...well I guess I will have to use this link more often!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/

 

[seuboi]

IMHO it would be so much better to not having a swearing filter. Instead we could have a more strict offense restriction. Like, we could say (between friends, not /shout) all the crap we want, but when someone started swearing and humiliating someone he could get like a full day ban. This way we could maintain a respectful environment without being so picky like a grandma would do lol. There's so much offenses going on without a single bad word, there are plenty ways to offend without using one single word.

 

[UnknownMelody]

While on the topic of cursing and verbal abuse, I would like to know why are words like "Kys" are immediate warning even when both players are simply messing around and causing no harm to anyone especially when the pretext was a simple joke and all parties involved were joking, laughing and generally having a good time.

It's instances like this where people become fearful of staff thinking that they too might get warned for having a joke. After the warning, the joke was killed and no one was having fun for the remainder that the staff was on. In fact, a once lively chat was reduced to a few sentences per minute because of that warning. I believe that warns should be more carefully considered with the pretext included and not given out just at the mention of a word.

Also, I am not sure if it's intentional but I am noticing more posts and replies from staff on the forum. So good job on increasing player outreach and participating. I hope it continues like this.

A lot of the time it's difficult to tell if a player is simply messing around or if they're being serious. "Kys", as we all know, stands for kill yourself. That is much worse than saying "You're an idiot." yet that's is understandably accepted as disrespect. Saying "Kys" is a form of verbal abuse and it is very serious. The punishment used to be an immediate three day ban, but the rules have become more lenient to where this is now only a warning at first. I believe this is an appropriate action. Even if you were joking, other players may not know that and think of HavocMC as a very toxic and abusive community which wouldn't make many people want to join it. There is also the chance that you may say this to someone who might actually get triggered from it and do so due to other circumstances in their life - It could be the tipping point in their life. That's why we need to stop this sort of behavior before it becomes a more serious issue.

Staff are fine with players having a joke and I know that most of us would even join in on the fun - however when it comes across as abusing another player, that's a different story. I honestly think more people would be worried if we let it happen rather than if we punished players for it. Just because someone receives a warning doesn't mean that the fun has to stop. It simply means "Hey, be bit more respectful next time please."

We are indeed trying to increase staff activity on the forums and give replies where they are needed/wanted, so thank you for noticing! c: If you have any other ideas on how we could increase player outreach and participation, please feel free to let us know.

IMHO it would be so much better to not having a swearing filter. Instead we could have a more strict offense restriction. Like, we could say (between friends, not /shout) all the crap we want, but when someone started swearing and humiliating someone he could get like a full day ban. This way we could maintain a respectful environment without being so picky like a grandma would do lol. There's so much offenses going on without a single bad word, there are plenty ways to offend without using one single word.

We have removed the swear filter in the past and it has only led to more frequent and serious issues erupting in chat. Also regarding this, I'd like to point out that we don't warn players for offences committed in team chat unless it's very serious or contains sensitive information (for example: explaining a dupe glitch). So feel free to joke around all you'd like in team chat! c:
I hope I cleared up all unanswered questions here. c:

 

[xHobbes]

Getting muted for saying "effing" is like getting muted for saying "manure". I think that the Filter-Bypass rule should not be so sensitive. If he said something like "fvck," or "sh1t," then yes, he should be muted, but if he says "effing" or something like that, he should not.

 

[SummonersJhift]

Getting muted for saying "effing" is like getting muted for saying "manure". I think that the Filter-Bypass rule should not be so sensitive. If he said something like "fvck," or "sh1t," then yes, he should be muted, but if he says "effing" or something like that, he should not.

Depends if he had warnings before, obviously he did to recieve a mute

 

[Tubcat101]

Depends if he had warnings before, obviously he did to recieve a mute

stop it you staff wannabe. you know he's right that "effing" isnt a curse word and it shouldn't matter if he got warnings before

 

[CravenPython108]

As defined in the rules, filter bypass includes any means of bypassing the swear filter plugin. While you didn't directly say the intended word, you said a word directly linked to the intended swear word.

So that means people should be muted for saying wtf, right?

 

[UnknownMelody]

So that means people should be muted for saying wtf, right?

Abbreviations are allowed. I'd also like to point out that in this case, I was told that "effing" was accompanied by verbal abuse in the same message so that would be the main reason for the warning.

 

[CravenPython108]

Abbreviations are allowed.

Ok, kys is an abbreviation. Shouldn't it be allowed?

 

[Tubcat101]

Ok, kys is an abbreviation. Shouldn't it be allowed?

your a genius

 

[UnknownMelody]

your a genius

Abbreviations regarding swearing and filter bypass are allowed. "Kys" is verbal abuse and is very serious so no, it shouldn't be allowed.

 

[Tubcat101]

Abbreviations regarding swearing and filter bypass are allowed. "Kys" is verbal abuse and is very serious so no, it shouldn't be allowed.

so if i say FU that is swearing and filter bypass and verbal abuse. Be more clear

 

[UnknownMelody]

so if i say FU that is swearing and filter bypass and verbal abuse. Be more clear

I will try to be as clear as possible.
Swearing where there is a swear filter is allowed as long as it is the actual word and therefore, blocked out. However, if you said "You are such a ****headed imbecile." This would be classed as verbal abuse. It's not that you swore, but rather that you're abusing someone and that is what the warning would be for. Swearing where there is no swear filter (Hell Night for example) is not allowed. You'd be warned for swearing. Filter bypass is any means of bypassing the swear filter. One example would be "F@ck." You would receive a warn for bypassing the swear filter. Also, if you said "You're a c@nt." then you'd be warned for verbal abuse and/or filter bypass. "Wtf" is an abbreviation and isn't intended to evade the swear filter and is therefore, okay. You would not be punished for saying "wtf." "Kys" is verbal abuse intended to hurt someone, so you would receive a warning for saying it.

 

[CravenPython108]

Abbreviations regarding swearing and filter bypass are allowed. "Kys" is verbal abuse and is very serious so no, it shouldn't be allowed.

By your logic of "abbreviations are fine," it should be allowed. .

"Wtf" is an abbreviation and isn't intended to evade the swear filter and is therefore, okay. You would not be punished for saying "wtf." "Kys" is verbal abuse intended to hurt someone, so you would receive a warning for saying it.

If I say kys, I could mean know yourself. It doesn't automatically become kill yourself.

Wtf has an obvious meaning that the swear filter would block. How is that not filter bypass?

To be clear, I don't support saying kys, but by your logic it should be allowed.

 

[UnknownMelody]

By your logic of "abbreviations are fine," it should be allowed. .

By my logic, while "Kys" is an abbreviation, it falls under the verbal abuse rule and is treated as such. The meaning behind "kys" is "kill yourself" and if you said "kill yourself" then you'd still be warned for verbal abuse. However, if instead of saying "wtf" you said "What the F@ck", you'd be warned for filter bypass.

If I say kys, I could mean know yourself. It doesn't automatically become kill yourself.
Wtf has an obvious meaning that the swear filter would block. How is that not filter bypass?

I very much doubt lots of people would abbreviate "Know yourself" to "kys." Also, how often would the phrase "Know yourself" even come up? Sadly, on this server, it is much more likely that the meaning behind "kys" is "kill yourself." I'm also aware that this is an argument that a lot of people make when they are upset they've received a warning for saying it. They try and manipulate/deceive the staff member when in reality, their intended meaning was "Kill yourself." While I'm aware that not everyone would have those intentions, but it's the predominant meaning behind it.

 

[Nekophysix]

A lot of the time it's difficult to tell if a player is simply messing around or if they're being serious. "Kys", as we all know, stands for kill yourself. That is much worse than saying "You're an idiot." yet that's is understandably accepted as disrespect. Saying "Kys" is a form of verbal abuse and it is very serious. The punishment used to be an immediate three day ban, but the rules have become more lenient to where this is now only a warning at first. I believe this is an appropriate action. Even if you were joking, other players may not know that and think of HavocMC as a very toxic and abusive community which wouldn't make many people want to join it. There is also the chance that you may say this to someone who might actually get triggered from it and do so due to other circumstances in their life - It could be the tipping point in their life. That's why we need to stop this sort of behavior before it becomes a more serious issue.

Staff are fine with players having a joke and I know that most of us would even join in on the fun - however when it comes across as abusing another player, that's a different story. I honestly think more people would be worried if we let it happen rather than if we punished players for it. Just because someone receives a warning doesn't mean that the fun has to stop. It simply means "Hey, be bit more respectful next time please."

We are indeed trying to increase staff activity on the forums and give replies where they are needed/wanted, so thank you for noticing! c: If you have any other ideas on how we could increase player outreach and participation, please feel free to let us know.



We have removed the swear filter in the past and it has only led to more frequent and serious issues erupting in chat. Also regarding this, I'd like to point out that we don't warn players for offenses committed in team chat unless it's very serious or contains sensitive information (for example: explaining a dupe glitch). So feel free to joke around all you'd like in team chat! c:
I hope I cleared up all unanswered questions here. c:

There are a couple of things now that I can suggest.

if "kys" is an immediate warning and was a ban why not just completely censor it? such as "****" turning into "**** " simple solutions for simple problems.

Another way to interpret what you said if that you do not think that players are smart/mature enough to understand everyone laughing and making jokes might be a serious "kys "threat and that's why it becomes an immediate warning to prevent someone from being triggered.
Also if this was the case and preventing someone from being triggered the word has been written and sent. Damage has already been done. If someone is pissed off enough to say that in chat seriously with staff around I can safely say they will not care about any punishment system you have. So anyone that actually cares won't say it out of spite and mostly likely for a joke or banter where both parties (and probably everyone on the server) understand that it's a joke.I mean hell you guys are already social spying on us so I can't even msg "kys" to a friend I have known for 5 years without getting a warning.

you also see things too much from a staff point you might say you we're a player once but how long ago was that and maybe you might have lost touch because of yourself now being older than when you're a player. /warn is not as simple as you say. if you wanted to give warning that had the effect of what you mentions do a verbal warning. once a warning is given it shows on record and won't disappear. this especially so if a staff checks the record and see a warning without context. doesn't paint a very nice picture if the player does it?

This isn't really to bash the rules but I feel like a much better job can be done with it especially when view from players are taken into account because sometimes what we might find unreasonable is perfectly acceptable to you and vice versa. Also, I do understand that you guys are doing your job such as player break rules player punished but sometimes it can get unreasonable.