Is Negan really a villian?

[_Tachi_]

DO NOT READ IF YOU ARE NOT CAUGHT UP ON THE WALKING DEAD! THERE ARE MAJOR SPOILERS!

Consider yourself warned

I know, i know, before you say "Negan killed Glenn!" That doesent nesecarrily mean he is a villain. Rick and his group have killed a lot of Negan's men at his outpost. Just remember that.

So, lets get started:

Rick started the violence and attacked negans group without provocation, hilltop asked them to do it and they walked in guns blazing and killed a whole outpost of his men for no apparent reason (apart from hilltop claiming they were forced to give them stuff)

Carl killed sevral more of negans men, and negan pardoned hime because he liked Carl

If the story followed Negan for the last couple of years, Rick and his group would be a group of mercenaries hired by hilltop to exterminate them.

You might say negan is a tyrant, but there is no apparent democracy in neither Hilltop nor Alexandria.

And if youre still not convinced, heres a quote from Jeffrey Dean Morgan, the actor that played Negan:

"I see the other side of the coin. If we followed Negan's story for the last seven years, he'd be our hero, and someone like Rick, who rips the throat out of people, would be the bad guy... No matter who Negan kills, Rick and his survivors still killed 20 or 30 of my men. So, yeah, we keep kind of forgetting about that in the evilness that is Negan. So it's walking a little bit of a tightrope with the character and trying to make him real. But at the same time, I'm feeling justified in whatever I'm doing."

Hope youre convinced,
-Tachi

 

[bethgreenesings]

Yup yup yup! I don't think Negan is a villain at all.. Glad you included that quote by JDM, it's similar to what Kirkman said Rick and Negan are just on different sides of the same coin... I mean maybe it's just 'cause I'm a huge Negan fan but, I think Glenn and Abe dying was kinda karmic justice. They f'd with Negan first. I think they got off easy losing just 2 of their group. I love what Morgan said to Rick in back half of 6b "Maybe YOU started something." And I was thinking that in 'Last Day On Earth(6x16)' Like y'all mofos f'd with Negan only person that said they shouldn't attack Negan's outpost was Morgan, I think they got what they deserved.. Of course I wasn't happy about losing Abe and Glenn but.. And of course maybe Negan would have still done something but still. I just love Negan and I hope we do get a bottle episode showing his backstory.

 

[_Tachi_]

Yup yup yup! I don't think Negan is a villain at all.. Glad you included that quote by JDM, it's similar to what Kirkman said Rick and Negan are just on different sides of the same coin... I mean maybe it's just 'cause I'm a huge Negan fan but, I think Glenn and Abe dying was kinda karmic justice. They f'd with Negan first. I think they got off easy losing just 2 of their group. I love what Morgan said to Rick in back half of 6b "Maybe YOU started something." And I was thinking that in 'Last Day On Earth(6x16)' Like y'all mofos f'd with Negan only person that said they shouldn't attack Negan's outpost was Morgan, I think they got what they deserved.. Of course I wasn't happy about losing Abe and Glenn but.. And of course maybe Negan would have still done something but still. I just love Negan and I hope we do get a bottle episode showing his backstory.

A backstory episode on evrey character would be nice, and maybe an episode showing things from his POV

 

[ArmenTheHeli]

In an apocalypse, is anyone really a bad guy? Irl, is anyone a bad guy? Im about to get political, you have been warned.

So as bad a s it may seem, im going to be discussing a certain "terrorist" group. First thing that comes to mind when you hear "terrorist" is ISIS or Al Quaeda, right? But from their point of view, who are we? (im based in the us, so ill just use the us). To them, we are basically an army from a foreign land across the ocean that got into business that really did not concern us at the time (it does now, since we got too involved to turn back). To them, we are the bad guys. It's the same thing with Rick and Negan. They both have done violent or "bad" things, but they justify their actions with logic, even if that logic is somewhat twisted. One example would be the Governor, who kept his undead daughter in a cage. Now, even though he believed there could be a cure, why would he keep her in a cage? Easy. He wanted his town to stay alive, and wanted people to stay away from her. Thats why the cage is in a locked room that he keeps hidden in his home. The heads in a jar are an example of twisted logic, because although he believes there will be a cure, I don't see how someone gets cured from being a water-filled body-less head that was sitting in a tank rotting for years. Aside from that, he missed all those people, and did not want to let them go. Everything he did, was either for Woodbury's benefit, or his own. And since it's an apocalypse, Im pretty sure taking care of yourself (if your alone) is priority #1. I won't say he wasn't a bit crazy, but I guess thats justified in every case of crazy person because the world ended.

 

[_Tachi_]

In an apocalypse, is anyone really a bad guy? Irl, is anyone a bad guy? Im about to get political, you have been warned.

So as bad a s it may seem, im going to be discussing a certain "terrorist" group. First thing that comes to mind when you hear "terrorist" is ISIS or Al Quaeda, right? But from their point of view, who are we? (im based in the us, so ill just use the us). To them, we are basically an army from a foreign land across the ocean that got into business that really did not concern us at the time (it does now, since we got too involved to turn back). To them, we are the bad guys. It's the same thing with Rick and Negan. They both have done violent or "bad" things, but they justify their actions with logic, even if that logic is somewhat twisted. One example would be the Governor, who kept his undead daughter in a cage. Now, even though he believed there could be a cure, why would he keep her in a cage? Easy. He wanted his town to stay alive, and wanted people to stay away from her. Thats why the cage is in a locked room that he keeps hidden in his home. The heads in a jar are an example of twisted logic, because although he believes there will be a cure, I don't see how someone gets cured from being a water-filled body-less head that was sitting in a tank rotting for years. Aside from that, he missed all those people, and did not want to let them go. Everything he did, was either for Woodbury's benefit, or his own. And since it's an apocalypse, Im pretty sure taking care of yourself (if your alone) is priority #1. I won't say he wasn't a bit crazy, but I guess thats justified in every case of crazy person because the world ended.

Yah, if TWD was from Negans point of view, we would all hate rick

 

[ArmenTheHeli]

Yah, if TWD was from Negans point of view, we would all hate rick

I like them both

 

[StephenPeters]

Yah, if TWD was from Negans point of view, we would all hate rick

Glenn's death was heartbreaking, but indeed, of the storyline's from Negan's point of view, we would probably also break our heart when one of his man got killed by rick's group.

 

[JessePinktip]

I mean I wouldn't exactly say Rick started this, you have to remember Bud and his group of saviors on the road were about to kill Abe and Sasha. On top of that he saw Ethan try to kill Gregory as a "message from Negan." That would be an immediate red flag, as well as being ambushed on the road, followed by Jesus information about the saviors. And after all the past groups or people that have tried killing Rick and gang in the past (Woodbury, Shane, Clara, claimers, terminus, wolves, etc.), would've made it a poor choice not to attack first for once. And as for the location they're in on the show, they would've ran into Negan regardless, and he would have killed someone either way to show his power. Just wanted to point that out. Anyway I do agree Negan isn't a bad guy, but he's not a good one either exactly. Tbh his method of running the chain of community's and the sanctuary is absolutely genius and has little to no flaws.

 

[_Tachi_]

I mean I wouldn't exactly say Rick started this, you have to remember Bud and his group of saviors on the road were about to kill Abe and Sasha. On top of that he saw Ethan try to kill Gregory as a "message from Negan." That would be an immediate red flag, as well as being ambushed on the road, followed by Jesus information about the saviors. And after all the past groups or people that have tried killing Rick and gang in the past (Woodbury, Shane, Clara, claimers, terminus, wolves, etc.), would've made it a poor choice not to attack first for once. And as for the location they're in on the show, they would've ran into Negan regardless, and he would have killed someone either way to show his power. Just wanted to point that out. Anyway I do agree Negan isn't a bad guy, but he's not a good one either exactly. Tbh his method of running the chain of community's and the sanctuary is absolutely genius and has little to no flaws.

Hot iron to the face is genius?

 

[Sleep__Away]

DO NOT READ IF YOU ARE NOT CAUGHT UP ON THE WALKING DEAD! THERE ARE MAJOR SPOILERS!

Consider yourself warned

I know, i know, before you say "Negan killed Glenn!" That doesent nesecarrily mean he is a villain. Rick and his group have killed a lot of Negan's men at his outpost. Just remember that.

So, lets get started:

Rick started the violence and attacked negans group without provocation, hilltop asked them to do it and they walked in guns blazing and killed a whole outpost of his men for no apparent reason (apart from hilltop claiming they were forced to give them stuff)

Carl killed sevral more of negans men, and negan pardoned hime because he liked Carl

If the story followed Negan for the last couple of years, Rick and his group would be a group of mercenaries hired by hilltop to exterminate them.

You might say negan is a tyrant, but there is no apparent democracy in neither Hilltop nor Alexandria.

And if youre still not convinced, heres a quote from Jeffrey Dean Morgan, the actor that played Negan:

"I see the other side of the coin. If we followed Negan's story for the last seven years, he'd be our hero, and someone like Rick, who rips the throat out of people, would be the bad guy... No matter who Negan kills, Rick and his survivors still killed 20 or 30 of my men. So, yeah, we keep kind of forgetting about that in the evilness that is Negan. So it's walking a little bit of a tightrope with the character and trying to make him real. But at the same time, I'm feeling justified in whatever I'm doing."

Hope youre convinced,
-Tachi

You just twisted my whole world.

 

[bethgreenesings]

Hot iron to the face is genius?

Have you ever read 'The Prince' by Niccolo Machiavelli? In his book he questions whether it is better to be loved or feared as a prince[In this new age/what we are talking about it would be defined as a leader..] He says it is better to be both, but that is difficult to achieve..It is much better to be feared. To me that is how Negan operates. He operates on fear. If you want to control people and get them to do certain tasks, through orders and commands, then fear and intimidation gets people to do what you want. People don't wanna rock the boat because they don't wanna get punished. But with that fear, you cause mistrust.

We can see it with how some of his men look at him, mostly Dwight. You can tell Dwight doesn't like him he more than likely hates his guts.. But Negan doesn't see that, in his mind he believes everything is running smoothly. Just look at what he thinks of Daryl, he thinks what he is doing to him is breaking him, that at any moment he will switch sides and become one of his men, it's not though..well to me at least Daryl isn't broken, he is a little shook up of course, but he isn't broken. He was defensive in the latest episode of Carl, even barking at Negan. I think that's the funny thing about Negan he thinks he has everything under control, that he is so powerful and mighty..But things are falling under him, he is just to blind to see it.

Spoiler: possible spoilers

Just in case this does come true! Dwight is already turning on him. Working with Jesus and Rick, being the inside man

Don't get me wrong I still love Negan lol.. But you can love a character without loving/agreeing with everything they do...

Sorry I rambled a little

Anyways.. So, since he operates on being a feared leader, iron to the face is kinda genius. In his way he has to keep his people scared of him so they don't act out--

 

[bethgreenesings]

I mean I wouldn't exactly say Rick started this, you have to remember Bud and his group of saviors on the road were about to kill Abe and Sasha. On top of that he saw Ethan try to kill Gregory as a "message from Negan." That would be an immediate red flag, as well as being ambushed on the road, followed by Jesus information about the saviors. And after all the past groups or people that have tried killing Rick and gang in the past (Woodbury, Shane, Clara, claimers, terminus, wolves, etc.), would've made it a poor choice not to attack first for once. And as for the location they're in on the show, they would've ran into Negan regardless, and he would have killed someone either way to show his power. Just wanted to point that out.

I had to go back to that episode, been awhile since I've seen little Timmy and the **** brigade, Well hell I need to re-watch 6 again... Yes, they were gonna kill one of 'em, I mean probably both of 'em. How he was saying it's just what they do they kill one person from the new group they meet, how they operate...So, yeah of course like I said, Negan probably would have found them and killed one of them regardless. Negan didn't even know it was Team Family that killed his men on the road, not until 7x04 but that's beside the point..

Okay, I should have worded it better to what I meant to say.. Rick and Team Family didn't officially start something with Negan. What I mean to say is they just shouldn't have f'd with him by attacking his outpost. Them doing that and killing 30-40 of his men, just pissed him off. If I'm looking at it from Negan's point of view killing only one of them, well it was two but..still it's really letting them off easy. I just don't think they should have killed his people. It kinda makes me think of what Rick said in 'A' "Their f***ing with the wrong people" but in this case they truly f***'d with the wrong people. Negan is something different than what they have faced before, and you can even see how much Rick starts to realize that in 'Last Day On Earth'. At the beginning of the episode he's kinda ****y talking to Simon, like 'ah we don't negotiate b****.' And as it goes on he sees how many men they have and his attitude changes(ANDY needs a damn award, like honestly his fear at the end omg!!) he becomes more and more, eh I wanna say scared but not necessarily scared..but sorta... Anyways he changes he realizes they done f****'d with the wrong people! (No offense to any of the other badies we have seen before but Negan is, IMO, the baddest of them all.. Again, maybe just me being biased but...) And of course Rick, being the strong courageous leader he is, after seeing two of his family members brutally killed in front of him, he still doesn't break. Negan see's that and he had to break him down, by getting Carl involve-.... ((ok SORRY I'm rambling IM SO tired))

But I do totally understand why Rick wanted to attack them, seeing as what Team Family has been thru, who they have crossed, I get it. But in my opinion I think Rick was to ****y and he(and rest of team family) thought he/they could take out Negan with the few they had, but in the end it didn't work out.

(p.s. all of this wasn't necessarily directed at you by the way..I'm just generally speaking)
(p.p.s. I need to sleep now; I watched 3 episodes of 6b when I just meant to watch one little clip, fml)
(p.p.p.s I'm probably gonna edit the sh*t out of this in the morning, when I am not half asleep, I probably just sound like im rambling about nothing, i'm tired..)

 

[_Tachi_]

I had to go back to that episode, been awhile since I've seen little Timmy and the **** brigade, Well hell I need to re-watch 6 again... Yes, they were gonna kill one of 'em, I mean probably both of 'em. How he was saying it's just what they do they kill one person from the new group they meet, how they operate...So, yeah of course like I said, Negan probably would have found them and killed one of them regardless. Negan didn't even know it was Team Family that killed his men on the road, not until 7x04 but that's beside the point..

Okay, I should have worded it better to what I meant to say.. Rick and Team Family didn't officially start something with Negan. What I mean to say is they just shouldn't have f'd with him by attacking his outpost. Them doing that and killing 30-40 of his men, just pissed him off. If I'm looking at it from Negan's point of view killing only one of them, well it was two but..still it's really letting them off easy. I just don't think they should have killed his people. It kinda makes me think of what Rick said in 'A' "Their f***ing with the wrong people" but in this case they truly f***'d with the wrong people. Negan is something different than what they have faced before, and you can even see how much Rick starts to realize that in 'Last Day On Earth'. At the beginning of the episode he's kinda ****y talking to Simon, like 'ah we don't negotiate b****.' And as it goes on he sees how many men they have and his attitude changes(ANDY needs a damn award, like honestly his fear at the end omg!!) he becomes more and more, eh I wanna say scared but not necessarily scared..but sorta... Anyways he changes he realizes they done f****'d with the wrong people! (No offense to any of the other badies we have seen before but Negan is, IMO, the baddest of them all.. Again, maybe just me being biased but...) And of course Rick, being the strong courageous leader he is, after seeing two of his family members brutally killed in front of him, he still doesn't break. Negan see's that and he had to break him down, by getting Carl involve-.... ((ok SORRY I'm rambling IM SO tired))

But I do totally understand why Rick wanted to attack them, seeing as what Team Family has been thru, who they have crossed, I get it. But in my opinion I think Rick was to ****y and he(and rest of team family) thought he/they could take out Negan with the few they had, but in the end it didn't work out.

(p.s. all of this wasn't necessarily directed at you by the way..I'm just generally speaking)
(p.p.s. I need to sleep now; I watched 3 episodes of 6b when I just meant to watch one little clip, fml)
(p.p.p.s I'm probably gonna edit the sh*t out of this in the morning, when I am not half asleep, I probably just sound like im rambling about nothing, i'm tired..)

Rant level over 9000(but it was a good rant)

 

[qwef]

You have a lot of reasoning on your side but I think you're forgetting what Negan did in the last ep. I mean he has at least 10 wives, and if they cheat on him then he iron's the man's face. In his mind, he's a god, and everyone else must listen to him or your gonna die. I see where you're coming from when you said that Rick is just as evil, BUT the Hiltop/Kingdom did nothing that we know of to provoke Negan and he still bashed in one of their people's heads. So in my mind Negan will always be more evil than Rick.

 

[_Tachi_]

You have a lot of reasoning on your side but I think you're forgetting what Negan did in the last ep. I mean he has at least 10 wives, and if they cheat on him then he iron's the man's face. In his mind, he's a god, and everyone else must listen to him or your gonna die. I see where you're coming from when you said that Rick is just as evil, BUT the Hiltop/Kingdom did nothing that we know of to provoke Negan and he still bashed in one of their people's heads. So in my mind Negan will always be more evil than Rick.

Rick killed 30 or 40 of his people, and negan only killed 2 of his, so he got off prerry easy

 

[ArmenTheHeli]

Rick killed 30 or 40 of his people, and negan only killed 2 of his, so he got off prerry easy

If someone could find Negan's backstory I think most of the problems would be solved.

 

[bethgreenesings]

If someone could find Negan's backstory I think most of the problems would be solved.

There is a comic backstory, called "Here's Negan" I think you could find it on youtube. As for TV Negan, Kirkman and Gimple have teased an episode explaining Negans backstory.

 

[ArmenTheHeli]

There is a comic backstory, called "Here's Negan" I think you could find it on youtube. As for TV Negan, Kirkman and Gimple have teased an episode explaining Negans backstory.

Yes! Finally a backstory in the show! I'll read the comic version, but I don't know if that would be different from the tv show version of Negan.

 

[bethgreenesings]

Yes! Finally a backstory in the show! I'll read the comic version, but I don't know if that would be different from the tv show version of Negan.

Yeah I was hoping we would get a backstory episode this season... But probably won't be till 8A or possibly 8B.. I mean it better be in 8.

 

[bethgreenesings]

Rant level over 9000(but it was a good rant)

Yeah.. I rant a lot about TWD...