Taking a step back or two is progress. (Reverting TMD)

[Yove]

If the spawn locations were the same areas, people won’t explore the rest or get killed before they can. The areas you can get to my fast travel is fine for right now. We don’t need noob towns for people to camp.

No old map. Nope. And nope.

TMDC has the pains you wanted. They are what you requested. Stop complaining about us listening to you. And no, the rest of the TMD system can stay new system.

And hell no. All because you donate doesn’t mean you get treated differently. So nope. Jahanho can do it the way everyone else has to.



We gave you flipping what you wanted. Old pains and old map for the players that wanted to focus on PVP.

You did NOT give us what we wanted! We wanted an original TMD! NOT kit pvp. I am not saying to trash TMDC, I am just saying bring back TMDOP, everyone expected a TMD original/TMDOP remake.

 

[Pexxious]

The only Jugg I killed when in military was Pexxious, after spamming my barrett, try to actually kill a full jugg while in military, It's almost impossible when they spot you..."just have to be good" at what? Hiding? Two Barrett shots to military, and your dead. One shot when naked=your dead. Where is the reward when someone can shoot a gun?

Ur lucky i didn’t have any painkillers

 

[Yove]

The only Jugg I killed when in military was Pexxious, after spamming my barrett, try to actually kill a full jugg while in military, It's almost impossible when they spot you..."just have to be good" at what? Hiding? Two Barrett shots to military, and your dead. One shot when naked=your dead. Where is the reward when someone can shoot a gun?

You see, in the old update you could kill tankers... tier 5's do insane damage to jugs, miniguns deal 10 hearts with only 10 shots (a 2.5 second clip), and the combos with AWM, KSG, are absurd.

 

[Pexxious]

Everyone loved tmdop why was it removed in the first place xD

 

[mindblaster007]

The only Jugg I killed when in military was Pexxious, after spamming my barrett, try to actually kill a full jugg while in military, It's almost impossible when they spot you..."just have to be good" at what? Hiding? Two Barrett shots to military, and your dead. One shot when naked=your dead. Where is the reward when someone can shoot a gun?

I didn't read it...

 

[MichaelSteve]

You did NOT give us what we wanted! We wanted an original TMD! NOT kit pvp. I am not saying to trash TMDC, I am just saying bring back TMDOP, everyone expected a TMD original/TMDOP remake.

This is the original TMD. You guys treat it like kit PvP. We made it easier to have wars.

 

[DDENGAR]

Ur lucky i didn’t have any painkillers

I know, but doesn't that sorta prove my point?

The Difficulty of killing a full jugg is determined how good at tanking or how much painkillers they stacked up on ;-;

@Yove I wasn't talking about the last update, I was talking about 2016 PVP where people took more damage and focused more on damage output then vibrating their mouse.

 

[JBentley694]

To be honest this issue about our pvp system has been going on since the 1.7 days and I agree we need to revert our pvp system to the time before all these issues started. We need the pvp system from long before the days jugg and legend weapons existed. People wanted a system wear you can spam pains and be able to kill players who were to op and we delivered. But then players hated this and wanted pain spamming gone and juggs to be invincible so we again delivered. Now we are back at the same place with the same issue over and over with the pvp community split and most don't even know what they really even want anymore.

 

[HavocKres]

New pvp is alwful, if you got your first, hard earned jug set, you go out, and you get attacked by someone with no armor spamming a scar and lose it, you're telling me that heavy investment into that set, you wouldn't care you died to someone that used a no skill cheap tactic to kill you?

No Yove, I would not care. You see in reality, if you're getting shot at, you're not holding a medkit, you're running for cover.

 

[HavocKres]

No Yove, I would not care. You see in reality, if you're getting shot at, you're not holding a medkit, you're running for cover.

And just incase if nobody did see my comment, ill repost it now.

" Lets face it, we will never see the old 1.7 map ever again. If you want the server to stay alive you need to focus on what it needs and not what you want! My idea is to expand the map and add the old locations back, not reverting back to 1.7 as this will be our downfall, because eventually it will become boring and the server will shrivel up like burnt popcorn. Please let me know if you find a Minecraft vanilla zombie survival server that's better than this one, because I know you cannot. So lets do everything we can to keep this server alive. Maybe some day far ahead of time, MAYBE, when everything is sorted out, we might be able to add the old map back on a separate server, but I highly doubt (99.8%) that ever happening. Right now looking back is only going to stop progress. Whats the point in going forward if you're not looking ahead of yourself? "

 

[Yove]

This is the original TMD. You guys treat it like kit PvP. We made it easier to have wars.

And that is what we wanted! But we didn't ask for kit pvp.... Look, all you guys have to do is take the current map, slap TMDC mechanics over it, hell even add the OLD atlanta since that is what you guys had to REBUILD(or re-find) and name it TMDOP again! That will make the community (the pvp community) really pleased! Im begging you, it is such a simple solution!

 

[Cat_Squirrel_Inc]

Lets face it, we will never see the old 1.7 map ever again. If you want the server to stay alive you need to focus on what it needs and not what you want! My idea is to expand the map and add the old locations back, not reverting back to 1.7 as this will be our downfall, because eventually it will become boring and the server will shrivel up like burnt popcorn. Please let me know if you find a Minecraft vanilla zombie survival server that's better than this one, because I know you cannot. So lets do everything we can to keep this server alive. Maybe some day far ahead of time, MAYBE, when everything is sorted out, we might be able to add the old map back on a separate server, but I highly doubt (99.8%) that ever happening. Right now looking back is only going to stop progress. Whats the point in going forward if you're not looking ahead of yourself?

Give the man a cigar, he makes SENSE!

 

[CravenPython108]

Don't really have an opinion on most of this, since I don't play TMD, but this interests me;

exo obtained the old version through illegal acts and in my opinion that makes him a criminal and in my world I do not negotiate with criminals.

Oh sure he will give us a copy of what is Havoc property and return not ask for an unban because he dosn't need it. Despite his ban he is still an active player on the server. Again ban evasion and extortion is criminal acts in my book but you can view it however you want to.

You're saying Exo downloading a server map is illegal, and you could probably justify that through copyright laws. If you don't want to associate with criminals, that's fair enough. What I'm wondering is how you can discriminate against Exo for downloading and using a map that Havoc isn't even using, and at the same time build for Havoc, a server that's violating the Minecraft terms of service (EULA). What's the deciding factor for which crimes are ok?

Spoiler: Extra-special secret

Also, I think I remember you saying somewhere ban evading is a crime. If you didn't already know, punishments on a minecraft server don't have any real legal significance.

​

 

[MichaelSteve]

What I'm wondering is how you can discriminate against Exo for downloading and using a map that Havoc isn't even using, and at the same time build for Havoc, a server that's violating the Minecraft terms of service (EULA).

It’s disgusting that you would even consider plagiarism being ok. Do you not care that someone steals someone else’s work that they spent many, many hours doing? Do you not condone this behavior? You try getting something you worked hours on passed off as their own.

Plagiarism is not ok bud. And we build for havoc because we love what we do. We don’t decide for havoc to be legal or not. If you feel like it’s ok for someone to plagiarize because someone else is breaking the rules, not the people that build the map, is not ok. ​

 

[JBentley694]

Don't really have an opinion on most of this, since I don't play TMD, but this interests me;

You're saying Exo downloading a server map is illegal, and you could probably justify that through copyright laws. If you don't want to associate with criminals, that's fair enough. What I'm wondering is how you can discriminate against Exo for downloading and using a map that Havoc isn't even using, and at the same time build for Havoc, a server that's violating the Minecraft terms of service (EULA). What's the deciding factor for which crimes are ok?

Spoiler: Extra-special secret

Also, I think I remember you saying somewhere ban evading is a crime. If you didn't already know, punishments on a minecraft server don't have any real legal significance.

​

The map was illegally obtained during its operation which I guess you could say was the final push to release a new map being the 1.7 version was being used on another server.

The Eula update was not a mandated update by Microsoft. Havoc performed no illegal acts as many servers opted out of the Eula change. All Microsoft will do is blur out servers names on 1.12+ lists but even now there are ways for players to get around that. In my opinion Eula does include a couple things I agree with but it gives Microsoft a lot of control over a server and I do believe we will be atempt to be compliment with it again later on in the future it's just not a necessity as of now.

 

[Yove]

And that is what we wanted! But we didn't ask for kit pvp.... Look, all you guys have to do is take the current map, slap TMDC mechanics over it, hell even add the OLD atlanta since that is what you guys had to REBUILD(or re-find) and name it TMDOP again! That will make the community (the pvp community) really pleased! Im begging you, it is such a simple solution!

Highlighting that cause no one saw it ^

 

[CravenPython108]

It’s disgusting that you would even consider plagiarism being ok. Do you not care that someone steals someone else’s work that they spent many, many hours doing? Do you not condone this behavior? You try getting something you worked hours on passed off as their own.

Plagiarism is not ok bud. And we build for havoc because we love what we do. We don’t decide for havoc to be legal or not. If you feel like it’s ok for someone to plagiarize because someone else is breaking the rules, not the people that build the map, is not ok. ​

Ok and Illegal are two different things. Lying to your friends isn't illegal, but it's still a scummy thing to do. If you thought I was supporting plagiarizing the map, you completely misinterpreted what I said. Ripping the map may or may not be legal. How right it is isn't related to how legal it is.

The Eula update was not a mandated update by Microsoft.

That's strange. I thought the owners were contacted by Mojang and told to change it. Isn't that what Jacob said when it was first announced?

Havoc performed no illegal acts as many servers opted out of the Eula change.

So if five other people steal from a store, and then I steal from that store, it isn't illegal because other people did it too. I'll keep that in mind.

All Microsoft will do is blur out servers names on 1.12+ lists but even now there are ways for players to get around that. In my opinion Eula does include a couple things I agree with but it gives Microsoft a lot of control over a server

You seem to have not paid much attention to the EULA when you read it, so I'll link it for you: https://account.mojang.com/documents/minecraft_eula
Here's a part in the very first paragraph that I find particularly interesting.
"This license is a legal agreement between you and us (Mojang AB) and describes the terms and conditions for using the Game. We don't like reading license documents any more than you do, so we have tried to keep this as short as possible. If you break these rules we may stop you from using our Game. If we think it is necessary, we might even have to ask our lawyers to help out."

So first off, if they really wanted to, they could attempt to sue the server/owners, which is a little more than blocking the name off the server list.

Second, it isn't something you can say "eh, I don't really feel like following the eula," as you seem to think of it as.

and I do believe we will be atempt to be compliment with it again later on in the future it's just not a necessity as of now.

I'm unclear how you came to this conclusion. The rules are ridiculously simple; don't pirate the game, don't sell what Mojang created, and don't give access to things on your server unfairly. ​

 

[JBentley694]

Ok and Illegal are two different things. Lying to your friends isn't illegal, but it's still a scummy thing to do. If you thought I was supporting plagiarizing the map, you completely misinterpreted what I said. Ripping the map may or may not be legal. How right it is isn't related to how legal it is.


That's strange. I thought the owners were contacted by Mojang and told to change it. Isn't that what Jacob said when it was first announced?

So if five other people steal from a store, and then I steal from that store, it isn't illegal because other people did it too. I'll keep that in mind.

You seem to have not paid much attention to the EULA when you read it, so I'll link it for you: https://account.mojang.com/documents/minecraft_eula
Here's a part in the very first paragraph that I find particularly interesting.
"This license is a legal agreement between you and us (Mojang AB) and describes the terms and conditions for using the Game. We don't like reading license documents any more than you do, so we have tried to keep this as short as possible. If you break these rules we may stop you from using our Game. If we think it is necessary, we might even have to ask our lawyers to help out."

So first off, if they really wanted to, they could attempt to sue the server/owners, which is a little more than blocking the name off the server list.

Second, it isn't something you can say "eh, I don't really feel like following the eula," as you seem to think of it as.

I'm unclear how you came to this conclusion. The rules are ridiculously simple; don't pirate the game, don't sell what Mojang created, and don't give access to things on your server unfairly. ​

Mojang/Microsoft contacted all server owners who were not set up for the commercial EULA change. We all read and understood the EULA statement sent out by microsoft. We do not charge players real currency for the minecraft items they specified. Again we are not selling their game to anyone, we are not handing out minecraft accounts in return for currency nor do we charge people to play our server, anyone with the ip is more then welcome to join free of charge. We are also not renting out or selling license keys for minecraft itself. We are also not using or advertising mojang/microsofts brand to our advantage which they suggested not to do in the Eula. As I said we will eventually try again to be EULA compliant but at the rate of the first week no funds would of been left to pay for the server space. I do however do not agree with what microsoft suggest in the statement where they have the right to use, copy, modify, adapt, and distribute our work if they choose to do so.

Don't get me wrong I'm for EULA compliance especially allowing us to update to latest minecraft versions so we can be accessible to more players but I feel some things should be changed in the agreement presented by microsoft. I believe in removing the pay to win aspect which we tried to do during the short time and now we are facing all kinds of hatred because players can die to easy in jugg armor.

I stick by Havoc and the owners decisions to do whatever they feel is needed to keep the server online and I will continue to do so till the day I'm gone. I along with many others from our team helped create this place we call home and will always stick by it. I also do not advise you to steal anything from a store with 5 other persons. It is good to know the full story of why we are not in the EULA at the moment and it seems people only decide to collect and read pieces. We tried but it depleted the funds that pay for server space so it was either we opted out like many independent servers chose to do or say goodbye for a little bit till a better solution was found.

 

[Yove]

Mojang/Microsoft contacted all server owners who were not set up for the commercial EULA change. We all read and understood the EULA statement sent out by microsoft. We do not charge players real currency for the minecraft items they specified. Again we are not selling their game to anyone, we are not handing out minecraft accounts in return for currency nor do we charge people to play our server, anyone with the ip is more then welcome to join free of charge. We are also not renting out or selling license keys for minecraft itself. We are also not using or advertising mojang/microsofts brand to our advantage which they suggested not to do in the Eula. As I said we will eventually try again to be EULA compliant but at the rate of the first week no funds would of been left to pay for the server space. I do however do not agree with what microsoft suggest in the statement where they have the right to use, copy, modify, adapt, and distribute our work if they choose to do so.

Don't get me wrong I'm for EULA compliance especially allowing us to update to latest minecraft versions so we can be accessible to more players but I feel some things should be changed in the agreement presented by microsoft. I believe in removing the pay to win aspect which we tried to do during the short time and now we are facing all kinds of hatred because players can die to easy in jugg armor.

I stick by Havoc and the owners decisions to do whatever they feel is needed to keep the server online and I will continue to do so till the day I'm gone. I along with many others from our team helped create this place we call home and will always stick by it. I also do not advise you to steal anything from a store with 5 other persons. It is good to know the full story of why we are not in the EULA at the moment and it seems people only decide to collect and read pieces. We tried but it depleted the funds that pay for server space so it was either we opted out like many independent servers chose to do or say goodbye for a little bit till a better solution was found.

I get he doesn't understand the situation but may we keep this related to the topic?

 

[Yove]

cough* https://havocmc.net/threads/final-conclusion-fixing-tmd.6082/