Taking a step back or two is progress. (Reverting TMD)

[mindblaster007]

Don't really have an opinion on most of this, since I don't play TMD, but this interests me;

You're saying Exo downloading a server map is illegal, and you could probably justify that through copyright laws. If you don't want to associate with criminals, that's fair enough. What I'm wondering is how you can discriminate against Exo for downloading and using a map that Havoc isn't even using, and at the same time build for Havoc, a server that's violating the Minecraft terms of service (EULA). What's the deciding factor for which crimes are ok?

Spoiler: Extra-special secret

Also, I think I remember you saying somewhere ban evading is a crime. If you didn't already know, punishments on a minecraft server don't have any real legal significance.

​

It's only against the law if the Owners of HavocMC already copyrighted the map. However, if they are currently not copyrighted or they got them copyrighted after he did so, it's legal.

Owners if you are seeing this I'm wondering if you do copyright all of the content; custom gun skins, the custom player skins, vehicle skins, maps, and lobbies.

 

[Firelillx]

Wait, I'm hearing 2 different stories, and I'd like it cleared up, please.

Some staff are saying that "Mojang/Microsoft contacted all server owners who were not set up for the commercial EULA change." Meaning it wasn't really targeted for Havoc, but more of a blanket message to all servers not in compliance.

Yet other staff members are saying that a "butthurt kid" reported the server and something about a client that caused Microsoft to crack down on Havoc.


If staff decide to take the risk to break EULA, that's on them. I don't agree with it, but I can see how the decision was made. I just think staff need to pick a story and stick to it. Which of those options was it? It feels really shady when each staff member gives a different story.

So could a staff member please explain? Either some kid reported us or he didn't.

@JBentley694

 

[Incineration]

Hello, my name is Yove, some know me as PinkHorizion, I have been playing TMD since the glory days, and it's been a constant argument back and fourth between Old players (dubbed "OG's) and New players, staff, new staff, and so on, over how to revive, fix, or add to TMD.

The staff have made appeals to us, such as giving us TMDOP, when the new TMD was not so appreciated with the PVP it brought with it. (The delayed pain timers). And after releasing TMDOP, there was a time of little to no arguing with the staff. TMD even reached 700+ players again (which is quite a lot! considering TMD's old prime was around 1000-1200!). But as usual, other problems ensued, primarily the map being to big. The map, is amazing, the builders made a amazing one, but, it was to big, one issue was the spawn locations were to far apart, this will be the first problem I discuss.

Problem 1: Spawn locations need to be reverted back similarly to classic TMD's ones.
-If you do not remember, most spawn locations forced players to EVENTUALLY interact with each other, rather than limiting the possibilities of even finding a single player. This is a simple fix, and an idea can be re-creating the "noob towns" that were in the old TMD map.

Off from that, the map will be the next problem I discuss.

Problem 2: Potentially combine both the new map and old map, or completely revert to the old one.
-It is unlikely the map will be reverted anytime soon, thus, to limit the map size, put the newer builds from the new map into the old maps locations (such as the savior sanctuary, new safezones, possibly re add foxtrot, and add the new belport) etc. However, I'd advise keeping the old Atlanta. The old map, was said to be lost, this is incorrect, another user (yes, bare with me) Exo_HD, has it, and he is willing to give the map for free even without being unbanned.

Problem 3: Revert PVP.
-For the last time, we have ALL agreed that you should not change the pvp system of pains and medkits having to take time to use. Just revert it back (and while your at it, make pains right click again, for the love of god please).

Problem 4: Unban the players who contribute the money that keeps the server running
-*Cough Jahango* Giving donators who were banned second chances (or 3rd.... or 4th....) who >WERE NOT< banned for hacking, ddosing, etc. would greatly contribute to the servers cause.

Thats the 4 biggest problems I can think of right now, oh well. I hope this does not fall onto silent ears.
Cheers !
-Yove

Its the owner's choice to make TMD this way; They dont give two ****s. TMD is dead.

 

[MichaelSteve]

Its the owner's choice to make TMD this way; They dont give two ****s. TMD is dead.

They obviously care about the server.

 

[CravenPython108]

Wait, I'm hearing 2 different stories, and I'd like it cleared up, please.

Some staff are saying that "Mojang/Microsoft contacted all server owners who were not set up for the commercial EULA change." Meaning it wasn't really targeted for Havoc, but more of a blanket message to all servers not in compliance.

Yet other staff members are saying that a "butthurt kid" reported the server and something about a client that caused Microsoft to crack down on Havoc.


If staff decide to take the risk to break EULA, that's on them. I don't agree with it, but I can see how the decision was made. I just think staff need to pick a story and stick to it. Which of those options was it? It feels really shady when each staff member gives a different story.

So could a staff member please explain? Either some kid reported us or he didn't.

@JBentley694

From what I've heard, Mojang was cracking down on the eula in general, but there's no reason why someone couldn't have told them.

Yove is right though, this stuff really isn't related to the thread.

 

[The7thCpt]

Hello, my name is Yove, some know me as PinkHorizion, I have been playing TMD since the glory days, and it's been a constant argument back and fourth between Old players (dubbed "OG's) and New players, staff, new staff, and so on, over how to revive, fix, or add to TMD.

The staff have made appeals to us, such as giving us TMDOP, when the new TMD was not so appreciated with the PVP it brought with it. (The delayed pain timers). And after releasing TMDOP, there was a time of little to no arguing with the staff. TMD even reached 700+ players again (which is quite a lot! considering TMD's old prime was around 1000-1200!). But as usual, other problems ensued, primarily the map being to big. The map, is amazing, the builders made a amazing one, but, it was to big, one issue was the spawn locations were to far apart, this will be the first problem I discuss.

Problem 1: Spawn locations need to be reverted back similarly to classic TMD's ones.
-If you do not remember, most spawn locations forced players to EVENTUALLY interact with each other, rather than limiting the possibilities of even finding a single player. This is a simple fix, and an idea can be re-creating the "noob towns" that were in the old TMD map.

Off from that, the map will be the next problem I discuss.

Problem 2: Potentially combine both the new map and old map, or completely revert to the old one.
-It is unlikely the map will be reverted anytime soon, thus, to limit the map size, put the newer builds from the new map into the old maps locations (such as the savior sanctuary, new safezones, possibly re add foxtrot, and add the new belport) etc. However, I'd advise keeping the old Atlanta. The old map, was said to be lost, this is incorrect, another user (yes, bare with me) Exo_HD, has it, and he is willing to give the map for free even without being unbanned.

Problem 3: Revert PVP.
-For the last time, we have ALL agreed that you should not change the pvp system of pains and medkits having to take time to use. Just revert it back (and while your at it, make pains right click again, for the love of god please).

Problem 4: Unban the players who contribute the money that keeps the server running
-*Cough Jahango* Giving donators who were banned second chances (or 3rd.... or 4th....) who >WERE NOT< banned for hacking, ddosing, etc. would greatly contribute to the servers cause.

Thats the 4 biggest problems I can think of right now, oh well. I hope this does not fall onto silent ears.
Cheers !
-Yove

Getting the thread back onto topic, I think you have the right idea and to be frank a lot of the builders on this thread are covering their eyes purposely or otherwise to the issues at hand. The playerbase is possibly the smallest its been in the past few years and the new maps since 1.9 have all continued a pattern that's hurting the server: too much space, not enough players. I understand the desire for authenticity but accuracy should not get in the way of fun and having a smaller map with tighter design easily justifies removing some areas even if they were in the show/comics. Whether or not the smaller map is the 1.7 one doesn't matter.

I don't know that much about the current PvP system so I don't have many comments there except that there should be 0 advantages tilting the playing field to one side or another.

Problem 4 isn't a problem at all. There should be zero compromise with this issue; these specific players were given a permaban for a reason and no amount of money should influence any undoing of their punishment. If they want an unban, they can make an appeal like everybody else. Which punishments justify a permanent ban is an argument for another time. **** Exo btw.

 

[JBentley694]

Welp I guess the easiest thing to do would be to keep the current map on a separate server cause boy oh boy do we have a lot coming that is going to please all the fans. So much that we are running out of space, so yeah the easiest thing would probably be keeping the current map on a severer while we update the others with the big fun stuff we have coming.

 

[The7thCpt]

Welp I guess the easiest thing to do would be to keep the current map on a separate server cause boy oh boy do we have a lot coming that is going to please all the fans. So much that we are running out of space, so yeah the easiest thing would probably be keeping the current map on a severer while we update the others with the big fun stuff we have coming.

I am confused we have only had 3 maps. the 1.7 map which was a failure I agree, the TMD realism map which was ahead of its time and more to the fans and not the pvp players I agree and the current map which is only a few 100 blocks bigger then the 1.7 map.

Bentley this is bull**** and you know it. I keep hearing these sentiments from builders and staff about how much everyone's gonna love the updates and new maps but it's repeatedly proven wrong not only by community reaction on the forums but by the playercount and the rollback of ideas that the staff seem to always be undecisive on. There will always be backlash from the community when changes are made but the Owners seem to keep flip-flopping on these changes and it makes the team look weak. Cut the crap, make a decision, stick to it. Get a test audience for ideas before fully implementing them without community input. If something's not working and players aren't interested, leave it on the cutting room floor (Banner Wars, TMD Hardcore, OPTMD) and focus on refining the primary gamemodes (TMD, HavocHorizons, MineWars). Even at this point though MineWars is looking more and more like a overly ambitious failure so I'd say cut that as well.

While the new maps are pretty and detailed, authenticity is not a substitute for tight design and enjoyable gameplay, and it shows. I continue to see the builders jerking each other off on the forums with how great their maps are and talking down to players who have legitimate issues with the design and cohesiveness of their maps. I could understand your reaction if this was a building-focused server like MCME but it's not, the majority of players come for PvP with other teams of players and frankly reflecting on your and others builders' attitudes, the maps are not designed to accommodate these players but to accommodate your egos. That is a serious problem (one of many with the server right now) and if the staff do not pull their heads out of their *** then the server will continue tanking.

 

[JBentley694]

Bentley this is bull**** and you know it. I keep hearing these sentiments from builders and staff about how much everyone's gonna love the updates and new maps but it's repeatedly proven wrong not only by community reaction on the forums but by the playercount and the rollback of ideas that the staff seem to always be undecisive on. There will always be backlash from the community when changes are made but the Owners seem to keep flip-flopping on these changes and it makes the team look weak. Cut the crap, make a decision, stick to it. Get a test audience for ideas before fully implementing them without community input. If something's not working and players aren't interested, leave it on the cutting room floor (Banner Wars, TMD Hardcore, OPTMD) and focus on refining the primary gamemodes (TMD, HavocHorizons, MineWars). Even at this point though MineWars is looking more and more like a overly ambitious failure so I'd say cut that as well.

While the new maps are pretty and detailed, authenticity is not a substitute for tight design and enjoyable gameplay, and it shows. I continue to see the builders jerking each other off on the forums with how great their maps are and talking down to players who have legitimate issues with the design and cohesiveness of their maps. I could understand your reaction if this was a building-focused server like MCME but it's not, the majority of players come for PvP with other teams of players and frankly reflecting on your and others builders' attitudes, the maps are not designed to accommodate these players but to accommodate your egos. That is a serious problem (one of many with the server right now) and if the staff do not pull their heads out of their *** then the server will continue tanking.

You know what fine, do it yourself then cause obviously you and a few other seem to think you can make things perfect. I am at the point where I am tired of the harassment and attitude, I have done nothing but tried my best to be nice with people and it just dosn't seem to be working anymore. The 1.7 map is on the build server right now in its scattered blown apart form. You want to fix then you apply for builder and spend the next year rebuilding it. But this crap stops here cause I am tired of people accusing us of not listening because that is all we have been doing for the past year and a half. We have been simplifying everything so the pvp "og" goup would be happy but it all honesty no one knows what they want. "Make jugg un-killable"...."Oh no jugg is too killable nerf this and that"....."oh no jugg is un-killable". We have tried so hard to please one part of our player base and now it is just ridiculous. My fellow builders cant even go on any of the servers without getting hate thrown at them and that honestly sickens me. This is a minecraft server not the next generation game with million dollars of graphics and developing. I send out a newsletter twice a month with polls and suggestions to receive the communities feedback and a large amount of the community appreciate that.

I could care less your thoughts and opinions on me but I don't stand for people to downgrade and talk inappropriate things about my fellow team members. All of them work hard and are trying there damnest to make things enjoyable for both sides of this server. Minewars and TMD are the prime focus and have been for the past half year especially minewars. I also will stand behind the owners who put up with just as much crap as the builders do. I Have seen one of them works days straight on nothing but minewars and deal with developing.

I'm sorry you don't like our map but changes happen and when we started this server we swore to make it the most authentic TWD server to exist. This is a server by fans for fans and I'm sorry people rather have a big op shoot em' up but they are not the only ones on this server. I player base has maintained a steady beat for months now at 100-130 during peak hours and for me that is great from where we were 4 years ago.

So again I'm sorry you don't like our work but you are not the only people we have to try and please. I would also appreciate the rude remarks and nasty scuttlebutt that everyone who disagrees with us about my team members and the owners to come to a stop but I know it wont.

We made the changes we did because we knew we were about to be passed by other servers and you know what...it happened. You can keep using the 1.7 map as an escape goat to why you thing the server is bad. In truth if it was the 1.7 map and its inaccuracy that made things work then why didn't the so called huge 800+ player horde move to those servers that illegally downloaded and posted it up on there servers.

You as a former member of our family should know how hard we work aside from our own personal lives to brink this server to our players. For you to jump and say the things you do just proves you were never a part of our family.

 

[Cat_Squirrel_Inc]

Y'all need to shut the hell up with all the **** you people give the builders. It's so ridiculous. You should be HAPPY you even have a SERVER to play on. Be thankful for ONCE.

 

[The7thCpt]

You know what fine, do it yourself then cause obviously you and a few other seem to think you can make things perfect. I am at the point where I am tired of the harassment and attitude, I have done nothing but tried my best to be nice with people and it just dosn't seem to be working anymore. The 1.7 map is on the build server right now in its scattered blown apart form. You want to fix then you apply for builder and spend the next year rebuilding it. But this crap stops here cause I am tired of people accusing us of not listening because that is all we have been doing for the past year and a half. We have been simplifying everything so the pvp "og" goup would be happy but it all honesty no one knows what they want. "Make jugg un-killable"...."Oh no jugg is too killable nerf this and that"....."oh no jugg is un-killable". We have tried so hard to please one part of our player base and now it is just ridiculous. My fellow builders cant even go on any of the servers without getting hate thrown at them and that honestly sickens me. This is a minecraft server not the next generation game with million dollars of graphics and developing. I send out a newsletter twice a month with polls and suggestions to receive the communities feedback and a large amount of the community appreciate that.

I could care less your thoughts and opinions on me but I don't stand for people to downgrade and talk inappropriate things about my fellow team members. All of them work hard and are trying there damnest to make things enjoyable for both sides of this server. Minewars and TMD are the prime focus and have been for the past half year especially minewars. I also will stand behind the owners who put up with just as much crap as the builders do. I Have seen one of them works days straight on nothing but minewars and deal with developing.

I'm sorry you don't like our map but changes happen and when we started this server we swore to make it the most authentic TWD server to exist. This is a server by fans for fans and I'm sorry people rather have a big op shoot em' up but they are not the only ones on this server. I player base has maintained a steady beat for months now at 100-130 during peak hours and for me that is great from where we were 4 years ago.

So again I'm sorry you don't like our work but you are not the only people we have to try and please. I would also appreciate the rude remarks and nasty scuttlebutt that everyone who disagrees with us about my team members and the owners to come to a stop but I know it wont.

We made the changes we did because we knew we were about to be passed by other servers and you know what...it happened. You can keep using the 1.7 map as an escape goat to why you thing the server is bad. In truth if it was the 1.7 map and its inaccuracy that made things work then why didn't the so called huge 800+ player horde move to those servers that illegally downloaded and posted it up on there servers.

You as a former member of our family should know how hard we work aside from our own personal lives to brink this server to our players. For you to jump and say the things you do just proves you were never a part of our family.

Bentley I respect what you've done for HavocMC but your response shows why I am frustrated with the server.

Handling criticism like this is part of the job as a staff member, I thought you would understand as a Head Builder. I know I was blunt and maybe I said some things you didn't want to hear but that doesn't make me wrong. To state it again, I see too much self-congratulatory crap going on with the builders and the staff team. This is actively hurting the server because when people refuse to acknowledge the problems going on with HavocMC, things are only going to get worse.

It doesn't matter if you're tired of people accusing the staff/builders of not listening to their playerbase because if the complaints keep getting raised by different people then maybe there's something to them.There will always be backlash from the community when changes are made but the Owners seem to keep flip-flopping on these changes and it makes the team look weak. Cut the crap, make a decision, stick to it. Get a test audience for ideas before fully implementing them without community input.

I would hate to see all the work go to waste when the server shuts down because right now the impression I'm getting is that the staff and builders are putting their fingers in their ears and acting as if nothing is wrong and everyone's just being mean to them for no reason.

I am not doubting your work but I am questioning why there is so much focus on expansion that frequently is delayed or not delivered on as the playerbase is shrinking. One of the reason the server is in the pits right now is because the staff team is in constant damage-control mode. Updates frequently are polarizing and end up getting reversed because the staff try to compromise and please everyone. Release dates are constantly pushed back or delayed and promises are made but not delivered on. I am asking for decisiveness and transparency, nothing more. The Owners need to be realistic with their ambitions or the server will fail.

I was playing TMD in 2014 and 2015. 4 years ago the server had an average playercount of 400-500 players. A steady beat of 100-130 over the past few months is an incredible decline and it's been mentioned in another thread that the Owners are having trouble finding funds to keep the server running. I don't consider that great. I can appreciate the detail builders put into the new maps (as someone who loves MapMaker) but as a former staff member I think the work is a wasted effort and could be better utilized in other ways. I'll come back to this further down.

The 1.7 map is irrelevant. The problem I have with the past 2 maps is that they're built with a much larger playerbase in mind. Many things are spread out and players rarely encounter each other. The map needs to be downsized and tightened so that players are forced to interact more. I wish it wasn't like this but again the majority of players do not care about detail or accuracy, they come for PvP with other teams of players.

Discounting my criticism and saying it proves "I was never a part of the family" sounds like something a cult member would say and it won't change the server's current course downwards. Understand that what I say isn't meant to be a personal attack, Bentley, I legitimately want to see the server succeed but I also feel that the staff/builders need to be honest with themselves about the state of the server.

- 7th

 

[The7thCpt]

Y'all need to shut the hell up with all the **** you people give the builders. It's so ridiculous. You should be HAPPY you even have a SERVER to play on. Be thankful for ONCE.

I would refrain from commenting unless you actually have something of value to add to the discussion.

 

[MichaelSteve]

You’re kind of attacking us. We like to build and that’s what we do. We don’t need to worry about the state of the server. We are just builders and we honestly comment like an average player to suggestions. We just do our thing and staff do their thing. Leave Bentley alone.

 

[Chewables]

bruh you all writing more than I do for my school essays please just be concise.

 

[mindblaster007]

I would refrain from commenting unless you actually have something of value to add to the discussion.

I'm quite frankly pissed that people are blaming this bs on the builders. Next person who claims that's it's their fault I'm going to take all you god damn jugg and burn it with tons and tons of moltovs. When I'm done I'm going to make it so when you spawn you spawn in a giant pool of lava. (This is just a friendly warning. Plus, I would never go through with this cause it's not helper/friendly attitude. I'm just sick of tired of hearing, "This bs of an update is all the builder's faults.")

 

[mindblaster007]

@JBentley694 hang in there!

 

[Cat_Squirrel_Inc]

I would refrain from commenting unless you actually have something of value to add to the discussion.

I did contribute something of value: SHUT UP. Stop whining like everyone else on this damn forum. You do not give one OUNCE of credit to builders were credit is due. Smh, ungrateful thoots.

 

[JBentley694]

Bentley I respect what you've done for HavocMC but your response shows why I am frustrated with the server.

Handling criticism like this is part of the job as a staff member, I thought you would understand as a Head Builder. I know I was blunt and maybe I said some things you didn't want to hear but that doesn't make me wrong. To state it again, I see too much self-congratulatory crap going on with the builders and the staff team. This is actively hurting the server because when people refuse to acknowledge the problems going on with HavocMC, things are only going to get worse.

It doesn't matter if you're tired of people accusing the staff/builders of not listening to their playerbase because if the complaints keep getting raised by different people then maybe there's something to them.There will always be backlash from the community when changes are made but the Owners seem to keep flip-flopping on these changes and it makes the team look weak. Cut the crap, make a decision, stick to it. Get a test audience for ideas before fully implementing them without community input.

I would hate to see all the work go to waste when the server shuts down because right now the impression I'm getting is that the staff and builders are putting their fingers in their ears and acting as if nothing is wrong and everyone's just being mean to them for no reason.

I am not doubting your work but I am questioning why there is so much focus on expansion that frequently is delayed or not delivered on as the playerbase is shrinking. One of the reason the server is in the pits right now is because the staff team is in constant damage-control mode. Updates frequently are polarizing and end up getting reversed because the staff try to compromise and please everyone. Release dates are constantly pushed back or delayed and promises are made but not delivered on. I am asking for decisiveness and transparency, nothing more. The Owners need to be realistic with their ambitions or the server will fail.

I was playing TMD in 2014 and 2015. 4 years ago the server had an average playercount of 400-500 players. A steady beat of 100-130 over the past few months is an incredible decline and it's been mentioned in another thread that the Owners are having trouble finding funds to keep the server running. I don't consider that great. I can appreciate the detail builders put into the new maps (as someone who loves MapMaker) but as a former staff member I think the work is a wasted effort and could be better utilized in other ways. I'll come back to this further down.

The 1.7 map is irrelevant. The problem I have with the past 2 maps is that they're built with a much larger playerbase in mind. Many things are spread out and players rarely encounter each other. The map needs to be downsized and tightened so that players are forced to interact more. I wish it wasn't like this but again the majority of players do not care about detail or accuracy, they come for PvP with other teams of players.

Discounting my criticism and saying it proves "I was never a part of the family" sounds like something a cult member would say and it won't change the server's current course downwards. Understand that what I say isn't meant to be a personal attack, Bentley, I legitimately want to see the server succeed but I also feel that the staff/builders need to be honest with themselves about the state of the server. I'd be happy to discuss it more with you privately.

- 7th

You say you were around in 2014 but you do realize we had only 1 server with a 100 player limit correct. If you really want the server to live forever then you would support it and make organized suggestions. Also we are not expanding anything that is not yet, and if we get delayed then so be it, I would rather have tmd delayed so Minewars can be released in the next few months and the minewars builders can show off what they worked hard on.

By the way we have to compromise its how this works especially with the pvp side of players. If you have no faith in this server then why are you even here posting on forums. Also where are the builders going to utilize there work? I mean we are builders, we arnt making the map bigger so are we just suppose to stand around with thumbs up our bums doing nothing or can that effort not be utilized working on the current map. If you don't care about the detail then fine don't look at it go around the map with moody lighting and blur shaders.

As a last note, son I know a lot about being a staff member, I know there will be hate and criticism but you have to admit that things have gone too far with players targeting the staff members and demanding they want this and that exactly right now no matter how other players feel.

 

[The7thCpt]

You’re kind of attacking us. We like to build and that’s what we do. We don’t need to worry about the state of the server. We are just builders and we honestly comment like an average player to suggestions. We just do our thing and staff do their thing. Leave Bentley alone.

I was mainly speaking to Bentley as a Head Builder/leader and the Owners, I don't have any individual problems with the build team other than the brief things I mentioned in the post.

 

[The7thCpt]

I did contribute something of value: SHUT UP. Stop whining like everyone else on this damn forum. You do not give one OUNCE of credit to builders were credit is due. Smh, ungrateful thoots.

I would refrain from commenting unless you actually have something of value to add to the discussion.