HavocMC and its future :)

[Katitude]

Hello HavocMC,

So this is Katitude for anyone who isn't caught up with my name changed lol.

I've noticed some rather toxic threads on the forums so I wished to conduct a rather kind, yet still constructive, thread for the community who has still remained loyal to HavocMC.

For this, you don't have to provide a huge explanation, but if you have kind feedback, then feel free! This could technically be a large expository paragraph or essay lol depending on how much information you'd like to provide towards the server.

Prompt: What factors determine and contribute towards a healthy, enjoyable server?

You can have as many points as you'd like to back yourself up, such as kinder staff with 3 pieces of kind evidence to support, or possibly a lack of mini games with statistics or evidence from the changing playerbase; this is entirely up to you all. I honestly don't believe people will put time into this thread but I hope you do, because why not.

~Katitude

 

[PeachDAboss]

Suggestion: Better leadership. Starts from the top up. Owners need to become more involved, you and I should be able to agree on this. Need a better structure of Admin/Sr.Mod. Need people in those positions that are actually leaders. Also - from this, better staff picks. they have had some absolutely horrendous picks. The forums are a mess because it starts with the leadership. There is no enforcement of the forum rules by the uppers, so lowers don't care. Another suggestion is to stop cash grabbing. EULA update could have survived, they are too greedy to take the hit to their pockets. Also, this can be shown by half-*** game-modes released with absolutely no attention or bug fixes after. just imo - not trying to start drama or be rude, but I think people can agree with me on these points. thanks for making this thread.

 

[Yove]

Suggestion: Better leadership. Starts from the top up. Owners need to become more involved, you and I should be able to agree on this. Need a better structure of Admin/Sr.Mod. Need people in those positions that are actually leaders. Also - from this, better staff picks. they have had some absolutely horrendous picks. The forums are a mess because it starts with the leadership. There is no enforcement of the forum rules by the uppers, so lowers don't care. Another suggestion is to stop cash grabbing. EULA update could have survived, they are too greedy to take the hit to their pockets. Also, this can be shown by half-*** game-modes released with absolutely no attention or bug fixes after. just imo - not trying to start drama or be rude, but I think people can agree with me on these points. thanks for making this thread.

Couldn’t of said it better.

 

[Yove]

I want to deviate from what peach said but, there are some amazing staff picks that could be active and well monitoring staff, but have no chance of becoming staff due to previous offenses, matured or not, the staff choose some of the most random players with no experience or the most inactive choices, an example of a staff pick id personally believe would be good would be Slimme, for my own reasons, but if anyone wants to comment “lol no he’s toxic ahahah” grow the **** up and don’t even quote this, it’s just an example.

The staff team needs a TOTAL redesign, with the exception of owners and developers, the staff team definitely needs a fresh start. Some staff I personally think monitor well and are active enough to stay would be Kendrq. The staff at Sr. mod + definitely need to go, the same with helpers, helpers are suppose to be the most active of the group but seem to be some of the least, that is just from observation.

And promoting certain people to admin(COUGH BENGERMANN), why you chose to promote some of them over other picks, god knows. If my monitor wasn’t down I would upload a screenshot of a image that an admin shouldn’t say to someone (me), and how poorly they choose to handle it.

The staff is in need of new leadership, reaching out to some of the older staff to try to bring back a suitable head would show promise, perhaps peachdaboss, strikefire, jewishbagel, etc.

Next up, there needs to be quicker updates, I know building maps and coding can be long projects, but quick fixes that make the server better, such as nerfing over powered guns, merging the DEAD TMD-2 and TMD-4 servers into TMD-1 and TMD-3, downloading a simple plot plug in and re-releasing map maker (because dozens of forum users have kept requesting it) are all capable of being done in probably a week at most? If not days. This would prevent toxicity and complaints and usual postings of requests of the same thing to a minimum. Especially the complaints of Auto spamming that are said everyday on TMD-1.

I could go on, but this post is long enough already.

 

[mindblaster007]

I want to deviate from what peach said but, there are some amazing staff picks that could be active and well monitoring staff, but have no chance of becoming staff due to previous offenses, matured or not, the staff choose some of the most random players with no experience or the most inactive choices, an example of a staff pick id personally believe would be good would be Slimme, for my own reasons, but if anyone wants to comment “lol no he’s toxic ahahah” grow the **** up and don’t even quote this, it’s just an example.

This is so true...

 

[Katitude]

Suggestion: Better leadership. Starts from the top up. Owners need to become more involved, you and I should be able to agree on this. Need a better structure of Admin/Sr.Mod. Need people in those positions that are actually leaders. Also - from this, better staff picks. they have had some absolutely horrendous picks. The forums are a mess because it starts with the leadership. There is no enforcement of the forum rules by the uppers, so lowers don't care. Another suggestion is to stop cash grabbing. EULA update could have survived, they are too greedy to take the hit to their pockets. Also, this can be shown by half-*** game-modes released with absolutely no attention or bug fixes after. just imo - not trying to start drama or be rude, but I think people can agree with me on these points. thanks for making this thread.

I want to deviate from what peach said but, there are some amazing staff picks that could be active and well monitoring staff, but have no chance of becoming staff due to previous offenses, matured or not, the staff choose some of the most random players with no experience or the most inactive choices, an example of a staff pick id personally believe would be good would be Slimme, for my own reasons, but if anyone wants to comment “lol no he’s toxic ahahah” grow the **** up and don’t even quote this, it’s just an example.

The staff team needs a TOTAL redesign, with the exception of owners and developers, the staff team definitely needs a fresh start. Some staff I personally think monitor well and are active enough to stay would be Kendrq. The staff at Sr. mod + definitely need to go, the same with helpers, helpers are suppose to be the most active of the group but seem to be some of the least, that is just from observation.

And promoting certain people to admin, why you chose to promote some of them over other picks, god knows. If my monitor wasn’t down I would upload a screenshot of a image that an admin shouldn’t say to someone (me), and how poorly they choose to handle it.

The staff is in need of new leadership, reaching out to some of the older staff to try to bring back a suitable head would show promise, perhaps peachdaboss, strikefire, jewishbagel, etc.

Next up, there needs to be quicker updates, I know building maps and coding can be long projects, but quick fixes that make the server better, such as nerfing over powered guns, merging the DEAD TMD-2 and TMD-4 servers into TMD-1 and TMD-3, downloading a simple plot plug in and re-releasing map maker (because dozens of forum users have kept requesting it) are all capable of being done in probably a week at most? If not days. This would prevent toxicity and complaints and usual postings of requests of the same thing to a minimum. Especially the complaints of Auto spamming that are said everyday on TMD-1.

I could go on, but this post is long enough already.

Although I don't agree with some of what you both said, I appreciate you making these well detailed posts, thank you!

 

[iMoe]

Suggestion: Better leadership. Starts from the top up. Owners need to become more involved, you and I should be able to agree on this. Need a better structure of Admin/Sr.Mod. Need people in those positions that are actually leaders. Also - from this, better staff picks. they have had some absolutely horrendous picks. The forums are a mess because it starts with the leadership. There is no enforcement of the forum rules by the uppers, so lowers don't care. Another suggestion is to stop cash grabbing. EULA update could have survived, they are too greedy to take the hit to their pockets. Also, this can be shown by half-*** game-modes released with absolutely no attention or bug fixes after. just imo - not trying to start drama or be rude, but I think people can agree with me on these points. thanks for making this thread.

Yeah I agree with parts of this. Ultimately it is a business for them and a source of income so they do what they need to do to keep money coming. I would agree that the owners need to become more involved, although they dont need to be publicly involved. Take Hypixel-- a super successful server that doesnt have owners that you see every day. HOWEVER, they are working very hard behind the scenes. And this is what Havoc needs! The owners need to be passing information about upcoming updates down to admins, who pass it down to mods, who pass it down to players.

Anyways I'd also like to say.. new gamemodes! When skyblock was released it generated tons of new players, old players, and ultimately created an entirely new community. However it wasn't touched for awhile, and so when season 2 was released with almost no new content other than a few shop changes and new island setup, most of the HH players got bored and HH became very slow. This was the pitfall of HH.

So, learning from the mistakes that were made with HH, I think a new gamemode would be a smart idea. Bannerwars! It would generate new players, bring back old players, and create a new community. In order to keep this new community running and not suffer the same fate as HH, it should have more frequent updates to keep people interested and keep the gamemode interesting. Even if the update was just a new kit or new map once a month. This would keep the gamemode fresh. Remove the least played map, and replace with a new. Remove the least used kit, and either rework it or replace it. I'm getting sidetracked so I'm just gonna stop here. Let me know what you think!

 

[Katitude]

Yeah I agree with parts of this. Ultimately it is a business for them and a source of income so they do what they need to do to keep money coming. I would agree that the owners need to become more involved, although they dont need to be publicly involved. Take Hypixel-- a super successful server that doesnt have owners that you see every day. HOWEVER, they are working very hard behind the scenes. And this is what Havoc needs! The owners need to be passing information about upcoming updates down to admins, who pass it down to mods, who pass it down to players.

Anyways I'd also like to say.. new gamemodes! When skyblock was released it generated tons of new players, old players, and ultimately created an entirely new community. However it wasn't touched for awhile, and so when season 2 was released with almost no new content other than a few shop changes and new island setup, most of the HH players got bored and HH became very slow. This was the pitfall of HH.

So, learning from the mistakes that were made with HH, I think a new gamemode would be a smart idea. Bannerwars! It would generate new players, bring back old players, and create a new community. In order to keep this new community running and not suffer the same fate as HH, it should have more frequent updates to keep people interested and keep the gamemode interesting. Even if the update was just a new kit or new map once a month. This would keep the gamemode fresh. Remove the least played map, and replace with a new. Remove the least used kit, and either rework it or replace it. I'm getting sidetracked so I'm just gonna stop here. Let me know what you think!

I feel a difficult debate for me is these two situations...

1. Have a bunch of new gamemodes

Pros:
- More interest towards the server
- People won't get bored due to the waiting for maintenance
- It will bring hype and interest the old players who have "quit"
- It will bring new players who are into many gamemodes even if they aren't "perfect"
- The server will have a better chance of running as other players would like to donate towards the success and enjoyment of the server
- It gives a morale boost for the community

Cons:
- Work is needed for fixing all the bugs and glitches / improving the current gamemodes
- It will take a long time working on these new gamemodes
- There will be numerous complaints claiming that the staff and devs aren't doing their jobs due to the waiting time
- The server needs more developers and workers

2. Keep the current gamemodes

Pros:
- The current gamemodes will end up next to amazing with no glitches or bugs
- The current gamemodes will only get better as the staff and developers (as well as ideas from the community) brainstorm new ways to make the current, very popular gamemodes, even better
- The gamemodes we have now may attract more players from the new enhancements on it

Cons:
- Players will quit HavocMC due to waiting time
- If players are bored of the current gamemodes, there is no reason to play or donate on the server
- The gamemodes we currently have are already at high peaks and there isn't a lot really that can make it amazing, for the exception of new builds and features
- Players who get bored most likely have a group they play with, meaning they will take their entire group with them away from the server, thus draining more players
- Due to lack of funds from the dropping playerbase, the server will have to be shut down

@BenGermann @Jacobg1998 @IgnitingIce @Mackiee @Kendrq @PeachDAboss @Yove @2Lily @Kyritic @_VC_ @iMoe

 

[DeleteThisAcc]

if anyone wants to comment “lol no he’s toxic ahahah” grow the **** up and don’t even quote this

lol no he’s toxic ahahah

 

[Katitude]

lol no he’s toxic ahahah

no u

 

[Rippen]

 

[MichaelSteve]

What makes a healthy and enjoyable server. Hmm.

1. Steady income. The server needs money to grow and when they don’t, they can’t.
2. They have unique game modes. If you have the same as others, it doesn’t become enjoyable. It’s just a repeat, or a copy. Has to be something original.
3. A nice community. This one is the most important one out of these. If you lack a nice community, the rest of these traits are useless. Community’s make or breaks a server. If the community is bad, it ruins the experience of the server. The game modes become useless. Rules usually aren’t strict enough and the staff tend to leave or quit due to the constant harassment and disrespect. If you had a ****ty game mode but a super friendly community, it makes the difference for that player staying because let me tell you, ****ty community ruins great servers.
4. Strict rules. You need strict rules to keep disrespect at bay. I would love if they have a one unban limit.
5. A healthy amount of staff that are friendly and helpful. You need this to allow the community to grow. While the community is helped by the staff, the community also helps shape the staff.
6. A player base that respects each other. You need a player base that is friendly to newcomers. You can’t label them randos or noobs. They were just like you too.
7. I would say that a smaller community makes for a more enjoyable and healthy server. When you have smaller community’s, you start to get to know everyone and everyone learns about you too. Your community becomes more of a family for the one common theme.

On the other hand, we got toxicity. Toxicity, matter how you view it, destroys community’s and overall the server. People have their toxicity to change, which I would label as the group of OG’s and we got all the new players. Most of the old players want what they want and not others which is understandable, but they do it in a way that isn’t right. Of course, we got our toxicity to staff members. Staff members who are disrespected get hurt. And the community doesn’t help them feel better. Affects the mood of the staff and other factors.

Complaining about HavocMC not doing what you want is not necessarily what’s right for the server. You don’t have a right to play on HavocMC, HavocMC lets you play on their server. They are sharing to you what they made. They don’t have to listen to your suggestions and they for sure won’t if your being rude about it.

 

[iMoe]

I feel a difficult debate for me is these two situations...

1. Have a bunch of new gamemodes

Pros:
- More interest towards the server
- People won't get bored due to the waiting for maintenance
- It will bring hype and interest the old players who have "quit"
- It will bring new players who are into many gamemodes even if they aren't "perfect"
- The server will have a better chance of running as other players would like to donate towards the success and enjoyment of the server
- It gives a morale boost for the community

Cons:
- Work is needed for fixing all the bugs and glitches / improving the current gamemodes
- It will take a long time working on these new gamemodes
- There will be numerous complaints claiming that the staff and devs aren't doing their jobs due to the waiting time
- The server needs more developers and workers

2. Keep the current gamemodes

Pros:
- The current gamemodes will end up next to amazing with no glitches or bugs
- The current gamemodes will only get better as the staff and developers (as well as ideas from the community) brainstorm new ways to make the current, very popular gamemodes, even better
- The gamemodes we have now may attract more players from the new enhancements on it

Cons:
- Players will quit HavocMC due to waiting time
- If players are bored of the current gamemodes, there is no reason to play or donate on the server
- The gamemodes we currently have are already at high peaks and there isn't a lot really that can make it amazing, for the exception of new builds and features
- Players who get bored most likely have a group they play with, meaning they will take their entire group with them away from the server, thus draining more players
- Due to lack of funds from the dropping playerbase, the server will have to be shut down
[/USER]

Yeah its no easy decision choosing which direction to go. I think that the best idea would be to sort of do both of them together. We saw that HH brought in a lot of new players, but they didn't stick around. I think right after the next update (which will hopefully be soon) they should work on getting bannerwars out. It would bring in new players to play bannerwars, and then those same new players would also check out the other game modes and might become regulars. Plus bannerwars has been mechanically working for the last year.. just need more maps which shouldnt take long to make. I made one in about a week but the mode never got released

You've started a good comparison list. I think the trick to future updates is going to be about finding a middle ground between the new gamemodes and updating the old. New gamemode brings in new players, but without updates the players get bored. If you asked the owners what they have planned for the next year, would they be able to answer? Just something to think about.

 

[PeachDAboss]

What makes a healthy and enjoyable server. Hmm.

1. Steady income. The server needs money to grow and when they don’t, they can’t.
2. They have unique game modes. If you have the same as others, it doesn’t become enjoyable. It’s just a repeat, or a copy. Has to be something original.
3. A nice community. This one is the most important one out of these. If you lack a nice community, the rest of these traits are useless. Community’s make or breaks a server. If the community is bad, it ruins the experience of the server. The game modes become useless. Rules usually aren’t strict enough and the staff tend to leave or quit due to the constant harassment and disrespect. If you had a ****ty game mode but a super friendly community, it makes the difference for that player staying because let me tell you, ****ty community ruins great servers.
4. Strict rules. You need strict rules to keep disrespect at bay. I would love if they have a one unban limit.
5. A healthy amount of staff that are friendly and helpful. You need this to allow the community to grow. While the community is helped by the staff, the community also helps shape the staff.
6. A player base that respects each other. You need a player base that is friendly to newcomers. You can’t label them randos or noobs. They were just like you too.
7. I would say that a smaller community makes for a more enjoyable and healthy server. When you have smaller community’s, you start to get to know everyone and everyone learns about you too. Your community becomes more of a family for the one common theme.

On the other hand, we got toxicity. Toxicity, matter how you view it, destroys community’s and overall the server. People have their toxicity to change, which I would label as the group of OG’s and we got all the new players. Most of the old players want what they want and not others which is understandable, but they do it in a way that isn’t right. Of course, we got our toxicity to staff members. Staff members who are disrespected get hurt. And the community doesn’t help them feel better. Affects the mood of the staff and other factors.

Complaining about HavocMC not doing what you want is not necessarily what’s right for the server. You don’t have a right to play on HavocMC, HavocMC lets you play on their server. They are sharing to you what they made. They don’t have to listen to your suggestions and they for sure won’t if your being rude about it.

HavocMC needs ME - I don't need HavocMC. Just remember they need players to keep their business going. To keep players, they need to listen to their users.

 

[MichaelSteve]

HavocMC needs ME - I don't need HavocMC. Just remember they need players to keep their business going. To keep players, they need to listen to their users.

If they keep listening to the players, the server will never improve.

 

[Yove]

If they keep listening to the players, the server will never improve.

This is not meant to be toxic, but that is quite literally the stupidest thing you've ever said, my reasoning; If a server does not listen to their own fan base and community, and continue to neglect it, it will go no where, the community and players is what keeps the server alive.

 

[Rippen]

Staff disrespect me all the time

 

[Shredder_Playz]

Yeah I agree with parts of this. Ultimately it is a business for them and a source of income so they do what they need to do to keep money coming. I would agree that the owners need to become more involved, although they dont need to be publicly involved. Take Hypixel-- a super successful server that doesnt have owners that you see every day. HOWEVER, they are working very hard behind the scenes. And this is what Havoc needs! The owners need to be passing information about upcoming updates down to admins, who pass it down to mods, who pass it down to players.

Anyways I'd also like to say.. new gamemodes! When skyblock was released it generated tons of new players, old players, and ultimately created an entirely new community. However it wasn't touched for awhile, and so when season 2 was released with almost no new content other than a few shop changes and new island setup, most of the HH players got bored and HH became very slow. This was the pitfall of HH.

So, learning from the mistakes that were made with HH, I think a new gamemode would be a smart idea. Bannerwars! It would generate new players, bring back old players, and create a new community. In order to keep this new community running and not suffer the same fate as HH, it should have more frequent updates to keep people interested and keep the gamemode interesting. Even if the update was just a new kit or new map once a month. This would keep the gamemode fresh. Remove the least played map, and replace with a new. Remove the least used kit, and either rework it or replace it. I'm getting sidetracked so I'm just gonna stop here. Let me know what you think!

I like what you are saying and I agree with most of it, but I can see from a players perspective about the owners not being active. Me being a builder I see the owners constantly working on the updates and helping out with stuff around the server. Us as the builder and developer (which I can’t really speak for the developers but this is an assumption) we aren’t allowed to release info about updates because we want it to be more grand when the update releases. Overall I agree with you . Well done with your post...

 

[MichaelSteve]

This is not meant to be toxic, but that is quite literally the stupidest thing you've ever said, my reasoning; If a server does not listen to their own fan base and community, and continue to neglect it, it will go no where, the community and players is what keeps the server alive.

What I said made perfect sense. If the server is listening to the people wanting the OLD stuff, the server will never IMPROVE or move forward.

The sever is trying to move forward to the new player base, but the OG’s just won’t let it go. They try to update, but the OG’s don’t want to. They won’t let go of the past.

 

[Katitude]

I like what you are saying and I agree with most of it, but I can see from a players perspective about the owners not being active. Me being a builder I see the owners constantly working on the updates and helping out with stuff around the server. Us as the builder and developer (which I can’t really speak for the developers but this is an assumption) we aren’t allowed to release info about updates because we want it to be more grand when the update releases. Overall I agree with you . Well done with your post...

What I assume @MichaelSteve is trying to imply is that - either way - players are going to be unhappy. We have a variety of different players who want different changes, and some of them want things that will hurt the server and playerbase more than the changes that were going to be made beforehand. Yes, players should obviously be heard as they make up the community, but most of the players aren't aware of some factors that can damage the server.

Here is an example: The TMD update for the "OG" players was a disaster in my opinion. There was no pain limit, juggs were everywhere, and the new players who were seeing if the server was fun didn't like the server as they couldn't even play. And telling the new players to go on TMD-2 instead isn't fair, as every part of the server should be fair and welcoming for every new player.

There are specific playerbases:

- The PVP/OG players (TMD/HN)
- The roleplaying community (TMD and occasionally HN)
- The building community (MM and HH)
- The backbone communities (MW and HH)

These players all want different things. One playerbase from TMD may want something specific and time consuming, yet the other communities don't agree with the apathy given towards them because the TMD playerbase is larger. Moreover, the PVP and roleplaying communities may want the game to have new maps, while the PVP players want the old maps due to wars and such. PVP players liked the old map for a lot of reasons, though it would be so much better for refreshing maps for everybody else on the roleplaying community; see the dilemma? And if the playerbases from HH and MW don't receive the updates and attention they require to keep the gamemode exciting and lively, they will lose interest.

My whole debate on making new gamemodes or improving current ones rely on the playerbase for sure, but due to the complexity of it all, you can't listen to every suggestion and implement every demand of the playerbase because others won't agree with it, and staff will be harassed for not "listening" to all of the players when they were taking every suggestion into consideration. Nobody will be happy no matter what, meaning the staff don't ignore players, but consider everyone as a whole, based on what will keep the current players enjoying the server, and still attracting other players so there can be more gamemodes. I loved banner wars, yet there were a lack of players who played it and many glitches and bugs were piling up.

What I said made perfect sense. If the server is listening to the people wanting the OLD stuff, the server will never IMPROVE or move forward.

See, this does indeed make sense. Some parts of the playerbase want the old, and many want new changes. I know I am not a Senior Mod anymore, though there are so many contributions and factors to consider when the owners and staff must determine what their next step is for the community.