Unfair Demotion

[Doctress]

Well... I've been just looking at this post for a little bit. I only come here for some classic bants and comedic relief because well this server seems to have a new problem EVERY week. Just enjoying all the drama. I have better things to do so I haven't read EVERY post, but from what I can see... the staff team here is far from perfect. I think the entire staff program here needs a real rework. My main thing is how the flame (not hate, making a metaphor) of this thread is only growing. That is extremely concerning considering this was a Helper that was demoted. Not some old staff member or an Admin.

Now before I begin and here "Who the **** are you?" Let me introduce myself. Hi, I am CorporalBLOBER. None of you probably know who I am, and I like it that way. I am a Head of Staff on a semi popular server, not saying name of course. The server in the old days had 5x your playerbase now, but as of lately it's only has half of what you guys got now. Let me stop here... the reason why my server is loosing popularity is not because of the staff members. I've been the head of staff for about 3-4 months now. Not long but enough time to have a stable staff infrastructure.

I'm not here expecting you guys to listen to me, but I do want to point out that something needs to be done. The fact that this thread has not been solved is ridiculous. I'm not sure what party is correct, but if the Staff did have a valid reason to remove someone then that should be it. You get one of the admins, or the head of staff to explain it all and boom, it really is as easy as it sounds. I have only dealt with 2 threads like this while I've been head of staff on my server and I was able to take care of them before they even took off. That what really should of happened here. If that doesn't work, then maybe it really does mean that the person demoted were removed for not the right reason. When I get new Helpers, they go through training and take a test every month. By the time me and my Sr. Mods are done, the Helpers are ready to be excellent Mods. Maybe I've just got lucky, or maybe because when my Helper make a mistake, I teach them how to fix that mistake and learn from it. I'm no expert on this server, but from what I see the Helpers are basically getting removed for reasons like iHank: "an ongoing attitude, and aggressiveness towards staff, no major visible improvement after being spoken to multiple times, and doing a Jr. Mods job." All these reasons are preposterous! Do you guys really expect every person you hire as staff to be perfect? These are all issues that can be fixed through time. Hey maybe you guys have enough staff and it's worth more to look for staff who already know what they're doing, because what do I know. I think I'm about done here. My main suggestion is for who ever is in charge of staff here to really rebuild the staff program because the fact that a simple thread about a demotion can not be solved, then there must be a lot of issues wrong with the staff team.

Very well written. Corporal.

Well, the unnamed staffs who take their role as a privilege and abuses their powers, this is what a real problem solving attitude is. Oh and don't forget, this is a staff manager from another server expressing his opinion to help you guys. Will you guys do the same to help other servers? Doubt it.

 

[UnknownMelody]

Well... I've been just looking at this post for a little bit. I only come here for some classic bants and comedic relief because well this server seems to have a new problem EVERY week. Just enjoying all the drama. I have better things to do so I haven't read EVERY post, but from what I can see... the staff team here is far from perfect. I think the entire staff program here needs a real rework. My main thing is how the flame (not hate, making a metaphor) of this thread is only growing. That is extremely concerning considering this was a Helper that was demoted. Not some old staff member or an Admin.

Now before I begin and here "Who the **** are you?" Let me introduce myself. Hi, I am CorporalBLOBER. None of you probably know who I am, and I like it that way. I am a Head of Staff on a semi popular server, not saying name of course. The server in the old days had 5x your playerbase now, but as of lately it's only has half of what you guys got now. Let me stop here... the reason why my server is loosing popularity is not because of the staff members. I've been the head of staff for about 3-4 months now. Not long but enough time to have a stable staff infrastructure.

I'm not here expecting you guys to listen to me, but I do want to point out that something needs to be done. The fact that this thread has not been solved is ridiculous. I'm not sure what party is correct, but if the Staff did have a valid reason to remove someone then that should be it. You get one of the admins, or the head of staff to explain it all and boom, it really is as easy as it sounds. I have only dealt with 2 threads like this while I've been head of staff on my server and I was able to take care of them before they even took off. That what really should of happened here. If that doesn't work, then maybe it really does mean that the person demoted were removed for not the right reason. When I get new Helpers, they go through training and take a test every month. By the time me and my Sr. Mods are done, the Helpers are ready to be excellent Mods. Maybe I've just got lucky, or maybe because when my Helper make a mistake, I teach them how to fix that mistake and learn from it. I'm no expert on this server, but from what I see the Helpers are basically getting removed for reasons like iHank: "an ongoing attitude, and aggressiveness towards staff, no major visible improvement after being spoken to multiple times, and doing a Jr. Mods job." All these reasons are preposterous! Do you guys really expect every person you hire as staff to be perfect? These are all issues that can be fixed through time. Hey maybe you guys have enough staff and it's worth more to look for staff who already know what they're doing, because what do I know. I think I'm about done here. My main suggestion is for who ever is in charge of staff here to really rebuild the staff program because the fact that a simple thread about a demotion can not be solved, then there must be a lot of issues wrong with the staff team.

First of all, iHank was demoted for valid reasons which the recruitment team agreed upon and and decided that demoting him was the best course of action. I have no problem admitting that iHank had/has really great traits and he was a great staff member to certain degrees. I even suggested he reapplies in a few months when he improves on the issues we explained to him. However, there were issues that kept occurring and even though we had spoken to him, given him warnings and constructive criticism on how to improve multiple times, there were no improvements. Unfortunately we can't release the issues to the public without breaching our privacy policy.

As for the message quoted above, I would like to thank you for your suggestion. I very recently got promoted to Admin and am looking for ways to improve the staff team. I have a long list of things I am looking to implement, create or suggest to help improve the staff team and I'm working through it as fast as I can. We have so far introduced a better demotion system, fixed the mentor system and introduced a staff suggestion box (linked here). I am also working on writing better introductions to the different staff ranks so that staff will have all of the information they need to know as they are promoted. I have currently written the Helper and Jr. Mod introductions that I send to the newly promoted staff members. I will continue to work through the ranks when I have time.

There is a lot more on my list of things to help improve the staff team that I will continue to work through until I finish it and I hope the outcome will be great. However, I am only human and I have a life outside of the server so this list may take some time. As they say, Rome wasn't built in a day. I understand the concern you all have, but I want you to know that we are working hard on fixing the issues. I am also getting the Sr. Mods+ and the occasional Helper to help me with my list in the areas they can and they've been a great help. We've actually had a dramatic improvement in staff activity lately and the weekly average per staff member has increased by 7.5 hours. Mine Wars (a previously staff-neglected server) has been received a lot more attention from staff as well.

I myself have noticed that our current Helpers are doing an amazing job moderating the server and helping any players in need. There have been multiple times when Havoc Horizons has glitched out and the Helpers have handled the situation wonderfully until higher staff have been able to control the problem. The Jr. Mods have been doing a great job of handling support tickets and Sr. Mods have been doing a great job of handling Helper applications. Staff performance is increasing and I hope it will continue to. I'd like to thank you all for your opinions and I apologize for not being able to explain demotion reasons publicly, but please remember that threads like this cause more hate than support and don't benefit anyone. Thank you for understanding. c:

 

[CravenPython108]

It's good to see posts that aren't one-sided.

This post was completely unnecessary, all it did was add onto the rage that players, for some reason, hate staff. Staff do their best to help the players and be friendly. (I'm about to go into a different topic for a moment here, I'll get back on track afterwards.) I've seen in so many situations people overreact, upon which people began hating on staff over it. That's the only reason any of this "Staff vs Players" began. Overreaction. Yes, I think iHank was a great helper, do I want to go and start a argument over it? No. I trust the staff made their best decision when deciding to demote him. As for this document that was created, absolutely stupid. There's no other way to put it. Not only is this "Staff vs Players" things getting out of hand, but I often see people find humor from it. That's what that document was made for, humor. If this continues it's only going to lead to one thing, the staff getting stricter, and they would have the right. I don't think maybe people here would be happy with that. As for the staff part of this, I suggest a more organized system. One large issue of all this is "inactive" staff. It seems maybe people would be happier if a schedule was made of some sorts? The corrupt idiotic comments need to stop. During my time as staff not a single person there would I have called corrupt. I'm sorry I went on in this "rant", it's just that this post is going to cause un-needed drama. I hope everyone can learn something from what I've said.

the staff team aren't superhumans (something they remind us of frequently). They have the full potential to make poor decisions, and saying, "it was for the better" doesn't change that.

I was a helper a while ago and I stepped down due to me joining the Air Force, so hear me out on this. (Bet y'all forgot I existed, huh? ;P )

I didn't read much of the responses, but if higher staff makes a choice, good or bad, it's not our place to debate. If you don't like what they did, you can be upset. If you REALLY don't like it, you can not play their server. But if the choice wasn't beyond forgiveness, I wouldn't ruin your ingame experience over it.
That's my 2¢.

Here's the question; if a choice is made that directly or indirectly affects most of the server in a negative way, should you go along with it?

First of all, iHank was demoted for valid reasons which the recruitment team agreed upon and and decided that demoting him was the best course of action. I have no problem admitting that iHank had/has really great traits and he was a great staff member to certain degrees. I even suggested he reapplies in a few months when he improves on the issues we explained to him. However, there were issues that kept occurring and even though we had spoken to him, given him warnings and constructive criticism on how to improve multiple times, there were no improvements. Unfortunately we can't release the issues to the public without breaching our privacy policy.

As for the message quoted above, I would like to thank you for your suggestion. I very recently got promoted to Admin and am looking for ways to improve the staff team. I have a long list of things I am looking to implement, create or suggest to help improve the staff team and I'm working through it as fast as I can. We have so far introduced a better demotion system, fixed the mentor system and introduced a staff suggestion box (linked here). I am also working on writing better introductions to the different staff ranks so that staff will have all of the information they need to know as they are promoted. I have currently written the Helper and Jr. Mod introductions that I send to the newly promoted staff members. I will continue to work through the ranks when I have time.

There is a lot more on my list of things to help improve the staff team that I will continue to work through until I finish it and I hope the outcome will be great. However, I am only human and I have a life outside of the server so this list may take some time. As they say, Rome wasn't built in a day. I understand the concern you all have, but I want you to know that we are working hard on fixing the issues. I am also getting the Sr. Mods+ and the occasional Helper to help me with my list in the areas they can and they've been a great help. We've actually had a dramatic improvement in staff activity lately and the weekly average per staff member has increased by 7.5 hours. Mine Wars (a previously staff-neglected server) has been received a lot more attention from staff as well.

I myself have noticed that our current Helpers are doing an amazing job moderating the server and helping any players in need. There have been multiple times when Havoc Horizons has glitched out and the Helpers have handled the situation wonderfully until higher staff have been able to control the problem. The Jr. Mods have been doing a great job of handling support tickets and Sr. Mods have been doing a great job of handling Helper applications. Staff performance is increasing and I hope it will continue to. I'd like to thank you all for your opinions and I apologize for not being able to explain demotion reasons publicly, but please remember that threads like this cause more hate than support and don't benefit anyone. Thank you for understanding. c:

I missed the part where you explained what he needed to improve on. http://prntscr.com/

The recruitment team is very close. This can be a good thing and a bad thing. It means the personal opinion of one staff member could be the deciding factor in a demotion or ban. So say (hypothetically) a jr mod abused screensharing, and a demotion was discussed. If one of the Sr mods who was his/her friend said "I don't think we should," then the chances of a demotion lower by quite a bit.

See anything wrong with this picture?

Then it also goes the other way. Suppose a helper made a few mistakes in punishing offenses. A demotion is discussed, and one of the Sr mods who dislikes him for something in the past says "He isn't a good helper" or something. A demotion is now much more likely then it was before, because the team is willing to base its decision on the personal opinion of one staff member.

 

[NoNipplez]

I'm just

First of all, iHank was demoted for valid reasons which the recruitment team agreed upon and and decided that demoting him was the best course of action. I have no problem admitting that iHank had/has really great traits and he was a great staff member to certain degrees. I even suggested he reapplies in a few months when he improves on the issues we explained to him. However, there were issues that kept occurring and even though we had spoken to him, given him warnings and constructive criticism on how to improve multiple times, there were no improvements. Unfortunately we can't release the issues to the public without breaching our privacy policy.

As for the message quoted above, I would like to thank you for your suggestion. I very recently got promoted to Admin and am looking for ways to improve the staff team. I have a long list of things I am looking to implement, create or suggest to help improve the staff team and I'm working through it as fast as I can. We have so far introduced a better demotion system, fixed the mentor system and introduced a staff suggestion box (linked here). I am also working on writing better introductions to the different staff ranks so that staff will have all of the information they need to know as they are promoted. I have currently written the Helper and Jr. Mod introductions that I send to the newly promoted staff members. I will continue to work through the ranks when I have time.

There is a lot more on my list of things to help improve the staff team that I will continue to work through until I finish it and I hope the outcome will be great. However, I am only human and I have a life outside of the server so this list may take some time. As they say, Rome wasn't built in a day. I understand the concern you all have, but I want you to know that we are working hard on fixing the issues. I am also getting the Sr. Mods+ and the occasional Helper to help me with my list in the areas they can and they've been a great help. We've actually had a dramatic improvement in staff activity lately and the weekly average per staff member has increased by 7.5 hours. Mine Wars (a previously staff-neglected server) has been received a lot more attention from staff as well.

I myself have noticed that our current Helpers are doing an amazing job moderating the server and helping any players in need. There have been multiple times when Havoc Horizons has glitched out and the Helpers have handled the situation wonderfully until higher staff have been able to control the problem. The Jr. Mods have been doing a great job of handling support tickets and Sr. Mods have been doing a great job of handling Helper applications. Staff performance is increasing and I hope it will continue to. I'd like to thank you all for your opinions and I apologize for not being able to explain demotion reasons publicly, but please remember that threads like this cause more hate than support and don't benefit anyone. Thank you for understanding. c:

Almost perfect. That is really all the thread needed. I'm not saying that you guys didn't have a valid reasoning to demote the Hank guy; I was going by what he said on this thread. I too have a privacy policy on my server, but if the staff member demoted lied about their demotion, then they are no longer protected by it and we have every right to release the reasons for demotion. Thanks for realizing that some issues need fixing in your staff team, but don't do it too fast. I still love the amazing bants that happen because of the amount of drama this server has.

 

[Challenge_]

Here's the question; if a choice is made that directly or indirectly affects most of the server in a negative way, should you go along with it?

You can be upset. But in THIS situation (as well as most), it's not something you need to just flop out on forums. That's why I hated about half of forum posts. They're just rants that could be solved on a 1-on-staff level, where a ticket is made or Senior staff is directly contacted. Ranting on forums does the OPPOSITE of help your case. It makes it look like you don't know how to handle problems. It's like when your mom won't buy you that shiney new NERF gun, so you yell at her in the middle of the store. It's immature and childish.

I know I'm probably coming off with a better-than-thou attitude, so I'm frustrating people more than making my point. But can we agree (again, I just rejoined the community, so I don't know a lot about the problem) that this was something publicly known, and that blurting out your dissatisfaction with it was unnecessary? Like said, talking to Sr. Staff directly would have been more effective.

 

[purrr]

Well... I've been just looking at this post for a little bit. I only come here for some classic bants and comedic relief because well this server seems to have a new problem EVERY week. Just enjoying all the drama. I have better things to do so I haven't read EVERY post, but from what I can see... the staff team here is far from perfect. I think the entire staff program here needs a real rework. My main thing is how the flame (not hate, making a metaphor) of this thread is only growing. That is extremely concerning considering this was a Helper that was demoted. Not some old staff member or an Admin.

Now before I begin and here "Who the **** are you?" Let me introduce myself. Hi, I am CorporalBLOBER. None of you probably know who I am, and I like it that way. I am a Head of Staff on a semi popular server, not saying name of course. The server in the old days had 5x your playerbase now, but as of lately it's only has half of what you guys got now. Let me stop here... the reason why my server is loosing popularity is not because of the staff members. I've been the head of staff for about 3-4 months now. Not long but enough time to have a stable staff infrastructure.

I'm not here expecting you guys to listen to me, but I do want to point out that something needs to be done. The fact that this thread has not been solved is ridiculous. I'm not sure what party is correct, but if the Staff did have a valid reason to remove someone then that should be it. You get one of the admins, or the head of staff to explain it all and boom, it really is as easy as it sounds. I have only dealt with 2 threads like this while I've been head of staff on my server and I was able to take care of them before they even took off. That what really should of happened here. If that doesn't work, then maybe it really does mean that the person demoted were removed for not the right reason. When I get new Helpers, they go through training and take a test every month. By the time me and my Sr. Mods are done, the Helpers are ready to be excellent Mods. Maybe I've just got lucky, or maybe because when my Helper make a mistake, I teach them how to fix that mistake and learn from it. I'm no expert on this server, but from what I see the Helpers are basically getting removed for reasons like iHank: "an ongoing attitude, and aggressiveness towards staff, no major visible improvement after being spoken to multiple times, and doing a Jr. Mods job." All these reasons are preposterous! Do you guys really expect every person you hire as staff to be perfect? These are all issues that can be fixed through time. Hey maybe you guys have enough staff and it's worth more to look for staff who already know what they're doing, because what do I know. I think I'm about done here. My main suggestion is for who ever is in charge of staff here to really rebuild the staff program because the fact that a simple thread about a demotion can not be solved, then there must be a lot of issues wrong with the staff team.

Well said, my friend, well said.

 

[PeachDAboss]

Well... I've been just looking at this post for a little bit. I only come here for some classic bants and comedic relief because well this server seems to have a new problem EVERY week. Just enjoying all the drama. I have better things to do so I haven't read EVERY post, but from what I can see... the staff team here is far from perfect. I think the entire staff program here needs a real rework. My main thing is how the flame (not hate, making a metaphor) of this thread is only growing. That is extremely concerning considering this was a Helper that was demoted. Not some old staff member or an Admin.

Now before I begin and here "Who the **** are you?" Let me introduce myself. Hi, I am CorporalBLOBER. None of you probably know who I am, and I like it that way. I am a Head of Staff on a semi popular server, not saying name of course. The server in the old days had 5x your playerbase now, but as of lately it's only has half of what you guys got now. Let me stop here... the reason why my server is loosing popularity is not because of the staff members. I've been the head of staff for about 3-4 months now. Not long but enough time to have a stable staff infrastructure.

I'm not here expecting you guys to listen to me, but I do want to point out that something needs to be done. The fact that this thread has not been solved is ridiculous. I'm not sure what party is correct, but if the Staff did have a valid reason to remove someone then that should be it. You get one of the admins, or the head of staff to explain it all and boom, it really is as easy as it sounds. I have only dealt with 2 threads like this while I've been head of staff on my server and I was able to take care of them before they even took off. That what really should of happened here. If that doesn't work, then maybe it really does mean that the person demoted were removed for not the right reason. When I get new Helpers, they go through training and take a test every month. By the time me and my Sr. Mods are done, the Helpers are ready to be excellent Mods. Maybe I've just got lucky, or maybe because when my Helper make a mistake, I teach them how to fix that mistake and learn from it. I'm no expert on this server, but from what I see the Helpers are basically getting removed for reasons like iHank: "an ongoing attitude, and aggressiveness towards staff, no major visible improvement after being spoken to multiple times, and doing a Jr. Mods job." All these reasons are preposterous! Do you guys really expect every person you hire as staff to be perfect? These are all issues that can be fixed through time. Hey maybe you guys have enough staff and it's worth more to look for staff who already know what they're doing, because what do I know. I think I'm about done here. My main suggestion is for who ever is in charge of staff here to really rebuild the staff program because the fact that a simple thread about a demotion can not be solved, then there must be a lot of issues wrong with the staff team.

You stated you're here for drama? Go to bed. Anyways, lets point out your key point that contradicts your entire post. "These are all issues that can be fixed through time." As already stated, Honk had multiple verbal warnings with all the Sr.Mods. We tried to fix this through time. Didn't work. Also, the issue about this thread was solved. Honk isn't being readded back to the staff team.

 

[Doctress]

You stated you're here for drama? Go to bed. Anyways, lets point out your key point that contradicts your entire post. "These are all issues that can be fixed through time." As already stated, Honk had multiple verbal warnings with all the Sr.Mods. We tried to fix this through time. Didn't work. Also, the issue about this thread was solved. Honk isn't being readded back to the staff team.

If I were you I would read the thread more carefully. After all an ADMIN's words matters A LOT.

 

[PeachDAboss]

If I were you I would read the thread more carefully. After all an ADMIN's words matters A LOT.

I did read the entire thread, and we are making changes. But if you're simply here for drama you need to get out. Also, what NoNipplez said regarding the issue of Honk were debunked after his sentence about it takes time. After all, knowing the entire situation matters A LOT.

 

[DDENGAR]

I did read the entire thread, and we are making changes. But if you're simply here for drama you need to get out. Also, what NoNipplez said regarding the issue of Honk were debunked after his sentence about it takes time. After all, knowing the entire situation matters A LOT.

Let me repeat Peachy's Preach Speech: Get The **** Out if you are here for drama...

Plus Nobody knows the entire situation since it is enclosed by the "higher ups" , Come On Peachy, no **** we don't know

 

[Ender_bartdeco]

It seems I'm a bit late to the conversation.

Honk isn't being readded back to the staff team.

Interesting that pretty much every other staff who has commented on this thread suggested that iHank re-apply a few months later, but then you come in and say that he's never getting re-added. Am I sensing a little personal grudge, or have I missed something?

 

[Challenge_]

It seems I'm a bit late to the conversation.

Interesting that pretty much every other staff who has commented on this thread suggested that iHank re-apply a few months later, but then you come in and say that he's never getting re-added. Am I sensing a little personal grudge, or have I missed something?

So what if he does? It's none of your business so long as Peach doesn't let it effect his job as Mod. That, and he's not the only one making the decisions here. Trying poke nerves of staff members isn't wise.

Look. I already said this. This is NOT something that needs to be ranted about on forums. If you feel Hank was improperly treated, contact staff directly, not here. Ender, if you feel that Peach has a grudge and it's effecting his performance as mod, contact staff. Again, it's not something that needs to be blurted on forums. This thread has just become drama lovers and those trying to fan the flames.

I DARE y'all to not comment anything after this post. It has been proven that this post will not help Hank get reinstated as Helper. Anything posted after this proves your only reason for being here is because you love the drama and want the attention you oh-so-desperately desire.

 

[PeachDAboss]

It seems I'm a bit late to the conversation.

Interesting that pretty much every other staff who has commented on this thread suggested that iHank re-apply a few months later, but then you come in and say that he's never getting re-added. Am I sensing a little personal grudge, or have I missed something?

No - I'm saying he's not being readded at this current moment. The thread was created in "support" of readding him right now. I'm letting everyone know that he's not being readded at this current moment. Reading the thread helps.

 

[Challenge_]

No - I'm saying he's not being readded at this current moment. The thread was created in "support" of readding him right now. I'm letting everyone know that he's not being readded at this current moment. Reading the thread helps.

#PeachDADrama XD

 

[Draw4]

Why isn't this thread locked yet? XD

 

[seuboi]

This thread is the perfect example along with this one https://havocmc.net/threads/how-players-treat-staff-members.4168/

Its amazing how much patience the staff team needs, getting 'called out' by people who are not even aware of the problem/stuff going on the backend.

 

[CravenPython108]

This thread is the perfect example along with this one https://havocmc.net/threads/how-players-treat-staff-members.4168/

Its amazing how much patience the staff team needs, getting 'called out' by people who are not even aware of the problem/stuff going on the backend.

So we're ignoring the part where Peach threatened me for arguing with him?

 

[Snek87]

In my opinion this thread is kinda useless, while everyone expressing on their behalf is a good thing, its not aiding the situation the had already took place. Basically, now we are all just repeating ourselves.

 

[Rang0D]

So we're ignoring the part where Peach threatened me for arguing with him?

I'm missing the part where he threatened you?

 

[ArmenTheHeli]

No offense, but when you cite wikipedia as your source of information for something.... well...doesn't help your argument.

check the sources given at bottom of wikipedia page my dude, thats one of the most basic wiki rules. Bottom links give more detailed view into the topic. oh, and for the record, there isnt anything wrong with citing wikipedia. all websites, wiki or not, can have inaccurate information. wiki is good because it gives a basic look at topics then gives links to more websites