We all want change.

[MichaelSteve]

So, TMD was what killed Havoc. Huh.

 

[PeachDAboss]

So, TMD was what killed Havoc. Huh.

No - Greed killed Havoc. People in the leadership position, including myself and others were constantly frustrated at the Owner's lack of involvement and communication with the staff team. When Nick still had a very active role in development and management, he didn't even know who all the staff were, or cared to know who they were. For a long time the Owner's have isolated themselves. Out of the ten or more monthly staff meetings we conducted, Jacob was at one, with IgnitingIce and Nick never coming to any. We constantly asked for dates about updates, and complained about bugs going on, but the Owner's did not seem to care. Now that they are not making as much money as before, they finally care. I said in the past that MW was a joke, and I have since changed my mind. MW should have been updated ages ago, but because it wasn't making them money, they didn't give a damn. One may ask, why didn't it make as much money as TMD? Lack of advertising, lack of updates, and lack of attention. Unfortunately, what I have forgotten recently and other users have is that the staff have little to do with updates. It is solely the Owner's and their "development team." No matter how many times we tried to report bugs, or other issues to the Owner's, fortnite seemed to be the priority. This is why Havoc is dying. The Owner's only care(d) about money. I'm not trying to rant or be rude, but it's the truth, and it's a sad truth. A little more attention and better focus on priorities would have greatly changed the course of the server we see today. That is simply my two cents.

 

[Yove]

No - Greed killed Havoc. People in the leadership position, including myself and others were constantly frustrated at the Owner's lack of involvement and communication with the staff team. When Nick still had a very active role in development and management, he didn't even know who all the staff were, or cared to know who they were. For a long time the Owner's have isolated themselves. Out of the ten or more monthly staff meetings we conducted, Jacob was at one, with IgnitingIce and Nick never coming to any. We constantly asked for dates about updates, and complained about bugs going on, but the Owner's did not seem to care. Now that they are not making as much money as before, they finally care. I said in the past that MW was a joke, and I have since changed my mind. MW should have been updated ages ago, but because it wasn't making them money, they didn't give a damn. One may ask, why didn't it make as much money as TMD? Lack of advertising, lack of updates, and lack of attention. Unfortunately, what I have forgotten recently and other users have is that the staff have little to do with updates. It is solely the Owner's and their "development team." No matter how many times we tried to report bugs, or other issues to the Owner's, fortnite seemed to be the priority. This is why Havoc is dying. The Owner's only care(d) about money. I'm not trying to rant or be rude, but it's the truth, and it's a sad truth. A little more attention and better focus on priorities would have greatly changed the course of the server we see today. That is simply my two cents.

Excellent explanation, glad the truth is out! also...
Did you... just say fortnite do the owners prioritize fortnite over their own server LOL.

 

[Chewables]

Excellent explanation, glad the truth is out! also...
Did you... just say fortnite do the owners prioritize fortnite over their own server LOL.

I mean I would play fortnite over havocmc anyday

 

[CravenPython108]

So, TMD was what killed Havoc. Huh.

Not so much TMD itself, just that there's no focus on any other modes aside from TMD, and maybe HN.

 

[Firelillx]

I understand your viewpoint, but please consider this:
-Conquest has been down for a year
-Mine Wars hasn't been updated in a year and a half (I say update, but it was only a minor tweak on a gun)
-MM has been down for a few months
-HH hasn't been updated in a year
-Not sure when Banner Wars was taken down, but it isn't here anymore

These modes don't draw players anymore simply because no attention was given to them. The focus was on TMD and TMD only, so the potential for the other modes was lost. They don't draw players anymore because they're stale, sometimes broken, and have almost no hope of going anywhere. In the case of half of the modes I listed, you can't even play them anymore.

The part that's sad is that if TMD updates had stopped after TMD-OP came out, the server would almost certainly be doing better. During that time, survivor-type players and newer guys were generally happy with TMD-1, and older players were generally happy with TMD-OP. If the updates had stopped there, and the attention was shifted to some of the other modes, we would all be happy. TMD ladds would have the mechanics they liked, and the rest of us on MW and HH would be able to get some new content, and have a reason to play. For some reason though, the owners decided "Let's get rid of this setup that most people are happy with, and merge the two." Since then, the updates have been bouncing between favoring survivor players, and favoring jugg war players, with some from both sides leaving at each update. The updates also tend to have a large amount of bugs, since it's too hard to have people test the new version before making it server-wide.

My point is this: if TMD had stopped updating, more of the server would still be here.

In addition to that, half the things that are being added to TMD aren't even doing anything. I'm gonna use the double health bar as an example. If you use the search bar on the forums, you can see how many times a word was said, unless it's been used too much for it to be worth counting, like if you search "the" or "and." If you try searching double, you can see that it was used about zero times in regards to health bars in the past few months. It wasn't needed, and it wasn't suggested by the community. It's a similar thing with the level system that was added a while back. A fair chunk of the changes to TMD are completely pointless, and the effort could be used to improve one of the other modes, or maybe even make them run again.

But nah, that would be crazy.

No - Greed killed Havoc. People in the leadership position, including myself and others were constantly frustrated at the Owner's lack of involvement and communication with the staff team. When Nick still had a very active role in development and management, he didn't even know who all the staff were, or cared to know who they were. For a long time the Owner's have isolated themselves. Out of the ten or more monthly staff meetings we conducted, Jacob was at one, with IgnitingIce and Nick never coming to any. We constantly asked for dates about updates, and complained about bugs going on, but the Owner's did not seem to care. Now that they are not making as much money as before, they finally care. I said in the past that MW was a joke, and I have since changed my mind. MW should have been updated ages ago, but because it wasn't making them money, they didn't give a damn. One may ask, why didn't it make as much money as TMD? Lack of advertising, lack of updates, and lack of attention. Unfortunately, what I have forgotten recently and other users have is that the staff have little to do with updates. It is solely the Owner's and their "development team." No matter how many times we tried to report bugs, or other issues to the Owner's, fortnite seemed to be the priority. This is why Havoc is dying. The Owner's only care(d) about money. I'm not trying to rant or be rude, but it's the truth, and it's a sad truth. A little more attention and better focus on priorities would have greatly changed the course of the server we see today. That is simply my two cents.

I quoted these 2 posts because they are exactly what I am thinking. WOW. I couldn't have said it better myself. I haven't always seen eye to eye with Peach, but this is one area I agree wholeheartedly. THIS is what is killing Havoc. Constantly changing TMD while neglecting others and … GREED.

Couldn't have said it better myself, boys.

 

[MichaelSteve]

Maybe the players are greedy? hmmm.

 

[Firelillx]

Maybe the players are greedy? hmmm.

As someone who has a staff tag, you should be less of a ****** on the forums.

Live in your imaginary world where everything is perfect and the players are the reason the server is dying.


Wake up. All I see you do is argue immaturely on the forums. Players don’t make money off the server. Go ahead and call players greedy for wanting a stable server free of game-breaking glitches and timely updates. Wow. How selfish.

 

[Yove]

Honestly the staff never truly asked the players what they wanted until the server started going downhill, they listened to us once when we asked for TMDOP, and when we asked them (for example) to fix numerous bugs on minewars release (RPG team killing), other than that, it has had to be a massive post war on the forums to even get our voices heard. If what peach said about the owners is true, I am disgusted. Honestly, prioritizing fortnite over a community YOU own? They need to grow up.
Credit to Jacob: he at least gets on actively, reads forums, and has been to at least one staff meeting *and overall responds to players*

However, the other two, id like to see excuses for.

The new staff team seems horribly inneffective, with a few notable exceptions, Mackitude, Jbentely, etc.

Some staff barely get on, and when they do they don’t seem to care, this should be taken with a grain of salt, there are other notable exceptions I didn’t bother mentioning, so any staff who feel offended don’t be quick to jump the gun.

And with so many toxic kids on forums trying to argue, including some of havoc’s own staff, granted I am toxic, I don’t care, but I don’t intentionally comment things to **** people off like most forum users.

I wish luck to havoc since it’s going to die, thank you for 2016 and a part of 2017 being super fun!

*Cupid shuffles on out*

 

[Firelillx]

Honestly, what Peach is saying can’t be trusted. We haven’t heard from any of the owners about this and it almost seems like Peach is spreading hate on the owners. Owners that have to deal with all of us. I wouldn’t trust an ex staff. Sometimes they like to hate on their own community.


I don’t see that many breaking the rules these days. Wanna know why? Because the staff made the server a safe place where they aren’t needed much.

Quoted the parts I want to respond to.

Peach gains nothing by speaking out. What good would it do him to lie? Tbh it sounds pretty true to me. To your statement “we haven’t heard from any of the owners about it...”

We haven’t heard much of ANYTHING from the owners. I’ve been in this community about 3 years or so. I played when minecarts were cars. And I have only seen an owner on the server once or twice and even then they ignored everyone except a few favorites lol.

They don’t interact with normal players. Go look and check how many times the 3 owners have spoken in their own discord in the past year. Some have never talked. That is pathetic. If they are that busy, they shouldn’t own a server. The server isn’t THAT big where they don’t need to be around. A server this size needs active and engaging owners. Period.

Part of being an owner is communicating with staff and leading a community. They do not seem to care about the community. They care more about money than they do about fixing bugs. You notice how quick they were to revert the “update” and Remember when they implemented mythical when the TMD update had huge game breaking bugs? Making money is their top priority which leads people to think they are GREEDY.

Owners do not have to “deal with all of us” they just simply ignore everything and go on with their merry lives. Do you think they really care people are upset? Do you think they lose sleep over this? No. If they cared they would be more vocal and in touch with their community. They care about the dollar sign.

Lastly, I don’t see anyone breaking rules because there’s hardly any players left. Plus, idk if you are a reliable source for how many ppl are breaking rules. I still see people ask for help because of them on the discord.

 

[KyronicGaming]

All do me a favour and take this argument out my post.

 

[Firelillx]

All do me a favour and take this argument out my post.

To be fair, I had no interest in arguing. I just said I agreed with 2 posts. MichaelSteve got involved and pissed me off.

But it is your thread and it’s gotten off. I’ll quit responding to toxic staff like Michael.

Hope we get the change you talked about. I’d love to see those changes. After all, the community is what keeps a community going.

I know I can’t speak for all players, but no one I know blames builders or the moderation team. We know y’all work hard and care. The frustration people convey is not aimed at y’all.

Anyways, I’ll drop it for now. Good luck.

 

[MichaelSteve]

toxic staff like Michael.

We know y’all work hard and care. The frustration people convey is not aimed at y’all.

Anyways, I’ll drop it for now. Good luck.

Our views of being toxic are most likely diffeeent, but i was just trying to defending the server. I was starting a conservation, or different views on the subject. Giving people a second view. I have nothing against you. It just annoys me that people don’t appreciate the staff. They just blame them.

Thank you. We don’t get that many comments from people. So it means a lot. Though, I feel that the frustration is aimed at the staff, more of the owners, but blaming them for the cause of the decline. The whole staff vs others stuff.

I’m away from this thread.

 

[Tactical_Fox48]

So, after reading quite a few comments from a few different posts, I've come this conclusion:

Stop separating people into different groups.

Of course there are certain people who have different ideas for the server and different wants, but at the end of the day, we're all part of Havoc, whether we're being toxic or not. Right now, it seems to me that Havoc is trying to cater to all of these "groups", but what has that really done? In my eyes, it's just been separating the players even more, alienating them from each other because of so many different visions for the server with each update. Without the proper population, variation with game modes will get us nowhere. The owners would end up having to pay for servers that only a few people play on.

With that said, I think the owners should just focus on one main theme, rather than trying to appease every single group. We all know that's impossible. We've seen how each of these "groups" have played on their own servers and have developed their own tastes based on their experiences. Look at how that's made the community. Some are calling for the old map, which was much smaller and reminds people of the old days. Others oppose that idea and want more detail and places in the map. Some just simply welcome any change and just go with the flow, and don't understand why everyone is fighting. The community is absolutely split because of how much variation we have with the game modes.

This leads me to my proposed solution:

Have everyone play together on one large map.

The biggest issue I've found with having a large map is just roaming without any action. If we were to get rid of the extra servers, that would force people to interact, and ultimately lead to having more interactions within the community. People would have more in common when it comes to gameplay and would be able to agree upon changes that would have to be made, now that there's common ground. The map would feel much less empty, and while groups would be unique in their playstyles, people would be forced to adapt to everyone else's and to coexist alongside them.

People would oppose this at first, yes, but eventually they would need to either adopt a way of playing on the server together or quit, allowing the owners to work on one task that would benefit the majority of the player base at once, rather than having to compromise with each update to pacify many different groups with diverging ideas.

I know that I haven't been online too recently, but from what I could gather both in-game and on the forums, there hasn't been much improvement. All I see are comments calling each other out and fighting a little harshness with flat out uncalled for comments. It's not getting anyone anywhere to complain about someone else's complaints. Instead, analyze those complaints, and try to see where that person is coming from, put yourself in someone else's shoes.

We need to unite under one server, not divide based on our own wants and stigmas. These are just mushed-up ideas I got from going through the comments and personal experiences thrown together in the neatest mess I could manage at 1 in the morning, so please keep in mind that not all the concepts here are expressed fully. I'd love to hear input from others, and if you find these ideas worthwhile, please share them. Thanks for reading!

 

[Snakefangs2004]

I am just going to list a few thing that might help havoc in general and fix the weaknesses of it. First, I feel considering a lot of people are not really that happy about the server at the moment should make a poll saying something like "Are you happy with how the server is at the moment" and you will answer yes or no and then you can make a suggestion below of how they can improve the server and read all the answer and try to see the community's point of view or at least try to find a better way to speak to the community and see how they are feeling about how everything is going but in general just try to talk to the players and interact with them more. Some people are making complains about the staff not doing their job or not doing it well. In this case if you feel this way I say dm sr.mod+ about some thing the staff team should work on and how they can improve so they can show their full potential. The last thing I am not going to say is that the community you can say can get more along instead of arguing about different thing but more discuss them to solve a solution and follow the rules more in game, on the forums and on the discord which will just help the community a lot.

 

[UterZorker]

This is what lots of players don't get. Staff aren't going after them, they just want to help out.

wtf

 

[UterZorker]

So, after reading quite a few comments from a few different posts, I've come this conclusion:

Stop separating people into different groups.

Of course there are certain people who have different ideas for the server and different wants, but at the end of the day, we're all part of Havoc, whether we're being toxic or not. Right now, it seems to me that Havoc is trying to cater to all of these "groups", but what has that really done? In my eyes, it's just been separating the players even more, alienating them from each other because of so many different visions for the server with each update. Without the proper population, variation with game modes will get us nowhere. The owners would end up having to pay for servers that only a few people play on.

With that said, I think the owners should just focus on one main theme, rather than trying to appease every single group. We all know that's impossible. We've seen how each of these "groups" have played on their own servers and have developed their own tastes based on their experiences. Look at how that's made the community. Some are calling for the old map, which was much smaller and reminds people of the old days. Others oppose that idea and want more detail and places in the map. Some just simply welcome any change and just go with the flow, and don't understand why everyone is fighting. The community is absolutely split because of how much variation we have with the game modes.

This leads me to my proposed solution:

Have everyone play together on one large map.

The biggest issue I've found with having a large map is just roaming without any action. If we were to get rid of the extra servers, that would force people to interact, and ultimately lead to having more interactions within the community. People would have more in common when it comes to gameplay and would be able to agree upon changes that would have to be made, now that there's common ground. The map would feel much less empty, and while groups would be unique in their playstyles, people would be forced to adapt to everyone else's and to coexist alongside them.

People would oppose this at first, yes, but eventually they would need to either adopt a way of playing on the server together or quit, allowing the owners to work on one task that would benefit the majority of the player base at once, rather than having to compromise with each update to pacify many different groups with diverging ideas.

I know that I haven't been online too recently, but from what I could gather both in-game and on the forums, there hasn't been much improvement. All I see are comments calling each other out and fighting a little harshness with flat out uncalled for comments. It's not getting anyone anywhere to complain about someone else's complaints. Instead, analyze those complaints, and try to see where that person is coming from, put yourself in someone else's shoes.

We need to unite under one server, not divide based on our own wants and stigmas. These are just mushed-up ideas I got from going through the comments and personal experiences thrown together in the neatest mess I could manage at 1 in the morning, so please keep in mind that not all the concepts here are expressed fully. I'd love to hear input from others, and if you find these ideas worthwhile, please share them. Thanks for reading!

pve and pvp separate I hope

 

[Tactical_Fox48]

pve and pvp separate I hope

Yeah, again, those were just late-night thoughts I had been thinking about and decided to put down, it wasn't a fully flushed post/argument against anything. I was thinking that they should cut back on the amount of extra servers they're running (i.e. TMD-2 and TMD-4) and just have a couple main servers to pay for. In my eyes, it's not worth running a server that only gets maybe 10-20 people playing on it at max (from what I've seen).

 

[CravenPython108]

Yeah, again, those were just late-night thoughts I had been thinking about and decided to put down, it wasn't a fully flushed post/argument against anything. I was thinking that they should cut back on the amount of extra servers they're running (i.e. TMD-2 and TMD-4) and just have a couple main servers to pay for. In my eyes, it's not worth running a server that only gets maybe 10-20 people playing on it at max (from what I've seen).

If you just mean scrapping TMD2 and TMD4, then sure, I get that, but trying to make a single server that both the pain spammers and the survivors enjoy tends to leaves everyone unhappy.
[QUOTE="Snakefangs2004, post: 48589, member: 3019"]I am just going to list a few thing that might help havoc in general and fix the weaknesses of it. First, I feel considering a lot of people are not really that happy about the server at the moment should make a poll saying something like "Are you happy with how the server is at the moment" and you will answer yes or no and then you can make a suggestion below of how they can improve the server and read all the answer and try to see the community's point of view or at least try to find a better way to speak to the community and see how they are feeling about how everything is going but in general just try to talk to the players and interact with them more. [/QUOTE]

This has been done before. If you'd like to make a new one, go for it.

The last thing I am not going to say is that the community you can say can get more along instead of arguing about different thing but more discuss them to solve a solution and follow the rules more in game, on the forums and on the discord which will just help the community a lot.

Sometimes discussing becomes borderline arguing. There's not too much difference between the two, so it's unrealistic to expect only discussions and no arguments.

Following the rules more isn't gonna magically make the community come together and be perfect, either. Even if it would, telling people that it makes the community better if you follow the rules doesn't really make it more likely for people to follow the rules.

Also:

The last thing I am not going to say

​

Maybe fix that

​

 

[Tactical_Fox48]

If you just mean scrapping TMD2 and TMD4, then sure, I get that, but trying to make a single server that both the pain spammers and the survivors enjoy tends to leaves everyone unhappy.

The point of that idea was to help the owners put out fuller updates rather than ones they think will appeal to ALL groups, as well as to save the budget. I feel like the owners would put more time and effort into the server if they had less tasks to accomplish with TMD. All of these "tasks" that they're trying to get done with the current TMD updates are just generated based on many different view points on how the game should play. Forcing interaction between people with different playstyles would help the community come to a general consensus based on what needs to be changed and what does not, rather than having a bunch of conflicting concepts only pertaining to an individual's wants. Hope that clears up any misunderstandings about that!